What Does CNG Do With Unsold Lots

I have always wondered just what the appropriate action was in this case. I can't see a 'win' with any action. Lets say that I was the first underbidder on those 50 lots and would have won then except for the fake bids. I believe I have the right to expect first refusal on those lots not at the fake hammer price but at what I would have paid had that bidder not participated in the sale or one advance over the third bidder. I have received such contact from one dealer who was careful to make clear that I was not 'expected' to buy the lots but would be offered the opportunity under the regrettable circumstances. Of course there is the possibility that the fake bidder was also the third place bidder. That makes it look like he was a shill for the consignor who wanted to drive up the price on his lots but ended up buying them. I trust proper auction houses are on the watch for this sort of thing. The down side here is that a legitimate consignor (not one responsible for the fake bids) may have seen the fake bids and be expecting to be compensated on that basis. That's why I say there is no certain 'win' answer here. Must we have a system where each bidder has to post a bond to be forfeited if we do not fulfill the contract? We do not want that for several reasons not the least of which is that it would really cut back on the number of bidders and cause many lots to sell for less or not sell because many bidders would not choose to participate. I have no answer.

 

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Yes, we're known to be a rowdy, impolite bunch. So sorry. (Pronounced "sohrry", not "sawry". Please.)

 

I'm not sure I understand this -- are you saying that a dealer asked you to be a shill bidder at one of the dealer's auctions? If so, this is reprehensible. Are the "regrettable circumstances" that you might actually win the lot with your shill bid?

I, too, wish I had constructive and implementable solutions to the possibility of rigged bidding, but for all the reasons Doug cites above, there really isn't one. Probably the fairest thing to do is to move the coin to a different auction.

 

I don't know where you got that! I came in second in an auction. The winner never paid his bill. The auctioneer contacted me a month after the sale and said that the guy did not pay and asked if I would like the coin at one advance over the third bidder. I have no idea why the winner did not pay. He may have lost interest; he may have died. All I know is that he did not pay and the coin was available. Sorry I was unclear.

 

Actually, what Doug just explained happened to me. I had a "proxy bid" of 2200 Euros on a FDC Austrian Souverain d'or 1831-A Emperor Franz II. The auction took place while i was out cutting clients grass....
When I got home, I checked the auctioneers realized pricelist, and found I lost that coin by 200 euros (bid incrediment) winning bid was 2400 euros.
I felt bad, but forgot about it. Two weeks later, I got an e-mail/invoice for that coin 2200E+15 percent comm./ no further explanation. I was really happy with that, I guess the high bidder never paid? But now it found a home with me.

 

I prefer the solution mentioned by Doug.
Hypothetically, if there was a bidder at 1500, you at 2200, and a non-paying bidder at 2400, you should not have had to pay 2200, rather 1600 or maybe 1700. Only if there was actually a different bidder at 2000 should you have had to pay 2200.

Otherwise non-paying bidders would drive the prices up above what would have resulted without them. That is not fair.

 

I have to agree with that logic!
In my case, the winning bid was below estimate, plus on final bidding day, bid was at 2000, so I put my bid at 2200. So, in end I was second. In Triton XIX, these lots that ended up not paid for were "won" at 10-20 times estimates....really crazy bidding. Some other bidders were also driving up the prices? In most auctions, if you send in a proxy bid lets say 6500US/ and during auction, second highest bid is 4400/ then you would win the lot for 4500.