Who would like to add a bad buyer to their eBay block list?

I've actually had mixed results with eBay - because if a buyer states through eBay's messaging system that they "just didn't like it" or "changed their mind" - eBay tends to side with the seller - if you call them. If you leave it, buyer wins.

But I've never had a business be so indifferent and cavalier to their customers (sellers) as PayPal. Well, maybe also Bank of America & Comcast (who I don't do business with any more.)

 

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I have blocked bidders for various reasons, but that doesn't always solve the problem. A buyer can simply get a friend / agent to bid for them. Also I had one buyer who would just create a new bidder ID to bid on my items (he did it 4 times) before I contacted eBay with the evidence, and they suspended the buyer.

 

[sarcasm warning]

Come on. It's clearly your fault. After all, you were "makeing" it hard to leave positive feedback. And, and, and he "tryed", and it wasn't in your "discription". [My autocorrect made me type these this way 3 times.]

For the record, it's not just eBay that is the problem here; it's the ridiculous expectations of consumers nowadays generally. Your buyer is a moron, and eBay protects morons.

 

I have to agree. Hate to say a cliché, but "cost of doing business" really. Work with these type of folks, get them to return the coin, and then give them a refund. At least you can get the coin back, now it is debatable if you will.

I understand your frustration OP, but coins are not like regular commercial goods. They are unneeded trinkets we buy to amuse ourselves. As such, even with fine photography, a coin will look different in hand. Not defending the buyer at all, but just saying I have been unhappy with coins from well respected sellers as well. They simply looked different in hand than I expected them to. I kept them of course, because I am a hoarder, but I was unhappy.

 

Just out of curiosity, what would you do if someone asked for a return AFTER 30 days?

I'm not being a smart-aleck... I am just wondering. My guess is that Paypal/eBay would still side with the buyer...

 

PayPal would absolutely side with the buyer. I believe the actual limit is 45 days from receipt. What would I do? Probably try and talk them out of it, then ultimately accept the return and see if they altered it, switched it, or cracked it out before refunding.

 

As I've said above, I'd love to offer returns. But I refuse to allow 30-45 days for that...a week is enough. Two weeks is really pushing it. If you can't decide whether to keep a coin after two weeks there is something sketchy going on...lol...

In the end, before this happened, I'd been planning to add the 14-day returns back to eBay listings (even though eBay will eventually push us to offer 30 day returns, at which point I'll remove returns again.)

 

Update: Buyer has left me a negative feedback. Will see if eBay takes it down once they read through the messages.

Further Update: I literally have no idea what's going on now. PayPal has closed the case and the money is back in my account (at least temporarily.)

Spoke with eBay, who said that PayPal removed their ability to view case details, so I am now waiting for a callback from PayPal (30-45 min) so I can be put on a three way call between PayPal and eBay and my newly shrink. No, eBay does not have the capability to initiate the three-way call, only PayPal has that magical ability now. Instead of dealing with the eBay Appeals representative I've already spoken to (who seemed competent) I will now get to play the CS lottery for the right to explain the situation for at least the third time today (assuming the new batch can handle my questions.)

Good lord.

 

I forget the numbers but its an % of what the charge was.

 

(borrowed from @Camreno when he posted it in the "eBay Cherrypicker thread" on the "matte proof 1909-VDB" I thought it was pretty funny...)

 

Its retail man, retail of a "want" item, not a "need" item.

Idk, I spend most of my money with sellers whom I hear from others are very customer focused and willing to take returns almost unlimited. I never do that unless a coin is a fake, but the reputation gets around.

You ever think how many further sales you might miss by refusing to take returns later? How many collectors who might be appreciative of you letting them change their minds and you making them happy that way continue to buy from you? Just something to think about. The electronic world of sellers is becoming so crowded I mainly buy from sellers I have heard good things about, ignoring most others. One happy customer from a late return can turn into 20 years of further purchases. I have some sellers I still buy from who treated me well when I was younger, and now I have 10 times the coin budget I used to have.

Just some things to think about. I understand, its easy to get indignant and treat each sale as a one off transaction and not having any further effects later, but the world does not work that way, especially for hobbies.

 

Of course, of course I think about that.

I really pride myself on how I treat customers and consignors. My feedback is at 100%, and I've been a Top Rated Seller for years (even though I'm not now, as I was penalized for allowing some low-value auctions to go through non-tracked shipping; I will be one again at the next interval.) As I stated above, I had been wanting to add returns back to my eBay store. I'll probably still do it soon, if I ever get done handling this person's issue.

And, to be clear, it's not a matter of me being a PITA. It's a matter of eBay trying to strong-arm their sellers into worse and worse situations, and me standing up for myself and other sellers by refusing to automatically accommodate every additional requirement like 30-day returns and free shipping. I have rights, too.

 

As a knowledgeable real estate agent said to me when I was selling a house, disclosure is the name of the game. Probably should mention in ads anything that makes the coin less than perfect and state it in non-numismatic terms where possible (i.e. tarnish rather than toning). State it specifically for individual items, and have a general statement as well.

That said, you'll never win with some folks. And for some, you'll never figure-out their rationale because they don't have one. Best thing is to have an informal or hidden way of identifying them to other sellers.

eBay and Paypal have a difficult task to find a balance when there are disputes between buyers and sellers. I remember the days when sellers used retaliatory feedback or the threat of it in disputes. For some, it was implied in their ads ("We won't leave feedback until you do"). Balance has probably swung the other way now.

As far as getting law enforcement involved, it's probably useless. They'll either consider it a civil matter or too small to be worth the effort. As far as small claims court is concerned, my understanding is that in many jurisdictions, decisions aren't binding on defendants unless they agree to it in advance. Or if the decision is binding, the small claims court doesn't have the authority to evaluate and seize assets of a losing defendant. For a winning plaintiff actually to collect from a reluctant defendant, they have to go regular court, which is expensive and time-consuming. Bringing a small claims action against someone in a different state is probably the height of futility.

Cal

 

Update, and you're going to enjoy this:

Called PayPal. Was told there would be a 30-45 min wait, so I selected the "call me back" option. Just got my call back. Explained the situation to the PayPal CS employee...who then told me that PayPal was unable to initiate 3-way calls (I'm laughing in disbelief as she says this) and then offers to email me the results of the case. Of course, I then say that the email will be helpful, but eBay specifically told me that PayPal had to initiate the 3-way call to discuss the results of the case.

Side note: The case has apparently been closed in my favor...by the buyer, saying the problem was amicably resolved. No contact from the buyer except the Negative feedback. You ever feel like you're on Punk'd? Or Twilight Zone?

Back to PayPal. So, PP CS person has now refused to even investigate whether she can start a 3-way call with eBay. When I ask to speak with a supervisor, she asks me why. I tell her because I'd like to speak with a supervisor who might have the ability to initiate the call as directed by eBay customer service. Remember, I'm just trying to do what these customer service people are telling me to do... She tells me that the only thing she can do is email me the results and then I can call eBay. I again say Yes, please email me the results and I still would like to speak with a supervisor.

So, she transfers my call to eBay general customer service.

Not a supervisor. No email with case results. Just says screw it and sends me back to eBay.

So I get to explain the entire issue again (because when you try to summarize because you've already explained it multiple times in a day, they never accept the summary, they want the full explanation.) I ask for the Appeals department (as I was directed by the first eBay representative) and again I'm questioned - Why do you want to speak with them?

Good lord!

Finally, finally, finally I get to talk with Chris in eBay Appeals. Chris sounds like he knows what he's talking about, and he sounds like a CS rep who will get something done. I explain everything that's happened, and his response is:

"Wow."

"I don't even know how to respond to that." (incredulous at PayPal's completely incompetent and indifferent "customer service.")

So I spend three minutes after that on the phone with Chris. Chris reads the eBay messages. Chris can magically access the PayPal case. Chris tells me he will be removing the Negative feedback. Chris then asks me if I know how to add a user to a block list (I say, yes, he's already on it.) Chris then apologizes for PayPal's terrible customer service, and wishes me a great day.

Chris, you rule. I'd buy you a beer and shake your hand if you were in my area.

End result:

Buyer has coin. I have money (at least for now.) Negative feedback will be removed. I can now go back to putting together this coin auction I'm working on.

I typed all this out so everyone can see an example of what selling on eBay is like at its worst. Most buyers are not like this - but there are definitely enough people out there who will do their best to make you hate selling coins.

And shame on PayPal. Shame, shame, shame.

 

The correct term is actually 'libel.'

I've also had bad experiences with Ebay/Paypal. They don't seem to care about sellers, and will side with the buyer even when fraud is obvious. I hope you're able to get things worked out.

 

Benjamin,

I do not see any negatives on your page so it must have been removed already. Make sure you keep an eye on your paypal account for shenanigans for a while.

 

That was a cut & paste, but thanks!

 

Am I missing something?? or is all this over 49 plain worth $30??

 

Haha...Doug, love that gif of Jon Stewart. Definitely needed that.