Who would like to add a bad buyer to their eBay block list?

Here's the story:

Buyer buys coin from me on eBay. I ship the coin immediately.

Buyer receives coin and contacts me on eBay:

"What step do I follow to return the coin is just a little less eye appeal wise than I thought and I feel it's not worth quite as much as I paid thanks sorry for the inconvenience"​

My exact response:

"Hello **********!

Thank you for your message, and for your purchase. Unfortunately, due to changes in eBay's return policies, I stopped accepting what eBay calls "buyer's remorse" returns in my eBay store about 6 months ago. You will see that reflected in the Item Description and in the stated return policy for every listing. I do my best to image each coin to give buyers a full opportunity to inspect every coin I list prior to purchase.

I do appreciate your business, and I hope you have a wonderful weekend,

Thanks again,

~benjamin"​

So, buyer, knowing that eBay can (and will) check eBay messages, files a SNAD PayPal claim. This is his statement to PayPal:

"COIN was finger printed at time of grading this was not mentioned in discription tryed to work out with seller wouldn't take a return or hear my problem other than that every thing was great ship time and so forth but the customer service is far from helpful I want to leave positive feed back but there makeing it hard"​

Here is the main photo of the coin. As you can see, it's high resolution and you can clearly see the condition of the coin, including the fingerprint the buyer claims I did not disclose in the listing:



I provided PayPal with screenshots of all communication with the buyer, the original photos from the listing, and screenshots of my return policy in the listing. The buyer provided no additional evidence (because there was none) and was clearly lying.

So, what do you think PayPal did?

PayPal, of course, sided with the buyer and took my money.

So, if anyone else is an eBay seller, or coin dealer, and would like this person's eBay handle and name, I am happy to provide it through PM. If eBay and PayPal refuse to provide even basic seller protection against buyers like this, I feel it is our responsibility to take care of each other.

Thank you.

(steps down from podium)

 

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Stupid, That fingerprint sticks out like an sore thumb(no joke intended).. Did Paypal say why they sided with him when he showed no evidence and you showed all yours?

 

When I first contacted PayPal after they had "made their decision", I was told:

"We can't use eBay messages when deciding a case."
"It's easier for us to side with the buyer." (Yes, they actually said this to me.)

When I called the second time, because I literally could not believe the incompetence and indifference that was in charge of my money, I was told:

"The images you provided to us were blurry." (No, they were not.)

I then asked if I could email them the actual photos used in the listing, since they were unwilling to even LOOK at the original eBay listing on their own. I then emailed them the full resolution images.​

"We can't tell if the screenshots you took were actually from eBay." (Of course they were.)

I then asked if I could email them full page screenshots, because they only provide you a few MB of space and I'd already used it on the original files. So I did that.
​

Having spent two hours on the phone, most of it on hold (spending 20 min at a time just trying to get to talk to the first person, then getting hung up on and having to call back) I was in no mood to call them a third time today. From my conversations it was plainly obvious that:

*PayPal did not review the information I provided, or at the very least, it made no difference
*PayPal customer service was extremely indifferent to my side of the dispute to the point of openly admitting that it was just easier to always side with the buyer.
*PayPal creates a situation where you only have so much space to provide evidence that they supposedly use to arbitrate the case, meaning you cannot fully present your case.
*PayPal does not care about Terms of Sale from eBay listings.
*PayPal does not care one tiny bit about their sellers.
*SNAD loophole still exists, so buyers know they can override any conditions of sale if they lie and say the item was significantly not as described.

 

Stupid, stupid, stupid... Whats your next plan of action because I'm guessing you lost a lot of money due to the overpriced Paypal refund charge.

 

My next course of action is to do nothing, as I have absolutely no say in the processes. The only thing I can do is block the buyer and communicate his actions to fellow sellers to protect/warn them, because I am unable to leave negative/neutral feedback as an eBay seller. The game is completely stacked in the buyer's favor.

My only real positive course of action going forward is to continue to add coins to my website, to decrease my involvement with eBay and PayPal as a seller (I will still use eBay to cherrypick) and to explore alternative routes to sell the coins I have (example, will have a coin auction coming up shortly.) About all I can do.

 

Horrible, did he at least return the coin you got really screwed?

 

We'll see.

 

It's eBay these are the joys of selling. I got a neutral feedback because a SP 69 had "minor imperfections". Your mistake was showing your hand. Should have just said something along the lines of you are happy to accept returns when they ship it back. Most scammers and fishers go away at that point.

 

I think they wanted a partial refund as well.

 

Just accept returns. I do for any reason, but only get them once every couple months. Plus I almost never have to pay return shipping because they just return it under "Changed my mind."

 

How long do you accept returns?

 

@stldanceartist, I know it's a long shot... and a lot of time... and probably a bit of money... and IANAL... but...

Would small claims court be an avenue worth pursuing?

If nothing else, for the sheer satisfaction?

Edit #1: I Googled it and in my vast 5 minutes of research, it looks like it would be a futile effort...

Edit #2: There are some suggestions in some of the links provided by that Google search, though:

Idea #1

Contact PayPal customer service and demand a detailed explanation in writing.

Tell them you are planning to report this fraud to the police department and since this fraud was perpetrated via the Internet across state lines, you will investigate how to file a complaint with the FBI naming the buyer along with eBay and PayPal who have enabled this interstate electronic fraud.​

Idea #2

File the report with the police and I do believe there is an internet division now with the FBI that you can also contact, which I definately recommend you contct as that will get the attention of the police there as well, just in case the try and blow it off.​

Idea #3

Depending upon the state you reside or do business in, you can file a case, in Small-Claims Court, against the violator. Your state needs to have a ‘Long-Arm’ statute for you to be able to do this.

If your state DOES have such a statute, you can do the following:
- File your case for the amount owed + any expenses + inconvenience + your potential business losses + court costs (and interest). For example, an $84.00 ripoff to you could mean a $1,500.00 case against them.
- You can represent yourself (pro se) and do not need a lawyer
- The violator has to come to your locale, or, hire a lawyer to represent them

Can you imagine the expression on your cheater’s face when they get a court order to appear in a court half-way across the country. Priceless (and deserved).

This method works well for financial disputes (when you KNOW you are right) and, in cases where you receive Negative Feedback that are blatant LIES. This is called ‘Defamation of Character’ and/or ‘Liable’.

Additionally, when ‘Defamation of Character’ and/or ‘Liable’ is proven in court, you can ask the court (and they WILL do this) to issue an order to have eBay remove the Negative Feedback, and, by law, eBay must do this.
​

 

Finger Print is clear...

Sent from my C6740N using Tapatalk

 

The OP is not disputing the finger print. As I understand it, the fingerprint was clearly visible on eBay. I'm not sure if stldanceartist explicity *said* it had a fingerprint, and that is the loophole that the buyer is exploiting.

 

I used to accept returns on my eBay store (I have always accepted returns on my website, and all the prices are cheaper, but traffic & purchases are still low.) A couple of things influenced my decision to remove returns from eBay -

*eBay attempting to force sellers to accept 30-day returns. This is a ridiculously bad rule and I absolutely refuse to give someone 30 days to try to flip a coin for profit and then return it. I'm not going to extend my budgeting/paying consignors by a month.

*Even with returns, people like this guy will find a way to SNAD you into paying return shipping, lowering the price, etc. There are just jerks out there who have no conscience about whether their actions have consequences for other people, and as long as they get their way, eBay and PayPal are happy to enable this behavior. The only way these people get weeded out and/or have their behavior corrected is the blocked bidder list (since sellers cannot leave appropriate feedback.)



Now, do I WANT to offer returns? Sure. I want things to go smoothly. I want to sell a coin at a fair price (enough that I make a little money) and ship it immediately in secure packaging. I want every customer to have a good idea of the exact coin they are getting, so I try to provide good images so they can see the coin. I want a buyer to know that if I make a mistake, I will make it right on my dime. (Keeping in mind that it costs me $3 at minimum to ship every item since eBay penalizes sellers for shipping coins without tracking.)

Does the system as currently set up allow me to do that? Somewhat - because with buyers like this who are well aware of their advantages and aren't afraid to use them to squeeze a seller because they know the field is tilted in their favor.

"Significantly Not As Described" - to me, that means I sent you the wrong item, or used my images to hide something about the coin, or failed to mention something important. That's not "I just changed my mind so you should bear the brunt of that indecisiveness." And yet, that's what it's used for.

 

Ha ha...I seriously doubt it.

Agreed - that fingerprint sticks out like a sore thumb. The buyer (as you saw above) claimed I didn't describe the fingerprint in writing, so that means it was not as described. Even though, yes, it's plainly obvious in my photos. Which are part of the item description. I will only write extra notes if something is there that I can see but is not visible in the images (like a chipped slab corner, or the coin is slightly bent, or that a coin might have PVC contamination that will need to be addressed.)

 

30 days, and I have only had 1 return in years of selling come close to that. Most have let me know immediately... within 3-4 days at the latest.

 

This, Ebay or Paypal is going to force you to accept returns almost every time when there is a problem anyway despite what you write or select when listing in regards to returns. And by 'problem' that means whatever actual reason, simple whim or purchase regret on the buyers part as no matter what the reason Ebay will force you to take the return when the buyer complains.