How is this a PR-68 DCAM?

Well, I'm not attacking you. So what evidence do you have of your statement?

 

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I'd actually like to see a modern, circulated, commemorative silver coin.

 

Nearly 30 years of viewing coins being sold by large dealers and auction houses that are overgraded vs those submitted by smaller dealers and individuals. The differences are generally small, averaging perhaps 1 point given a certain vintage/rarity/value, but the differences are there.

Face it, there is no consistency between different TPGs or even within a given TPG, even at a given snapshot of time. Over time the inconsistencies have been even greater. This allows a certain amount of obfuscation to occur that favors large submitters, folks paying for premium services, or grades given to high value coins. These are the wink/nod/nudge clues that take what should be a blind process and tweak it to favor "industry" players.

 

I hear this meme a lot. Every time I test the hypothesis on my own, it comes up untrue. The last time, I had a classic commem that I bought from a Stacks Bowers sale, to add to an exhibit I'm working on. It was graded MS65+. Okay. I showed it to some fellow club members. Some of the old wags said, "if you sent that in, it might have gotten a 63 or 64." So I did. I cracked it out and resent it raw. It came back a 66.

 

Merely anecdotal evidence. As is - and this is my point - everything else posted here on the topic. The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

 

This coin will NEVER be "detailed" by a TPGS. It is just over graded according to ANA standards. IMO, those standards would drop the coin down to the 63-64 range. The important thing to take away from this thread is this:

The actual "technical or commercial" grade of this coin does not matter at this time in history. Once the grade of the majority of modern Commemoratives drops below 69-70 who cares! You can buy PR-69 gold Commemoratives for a small premium over MELT!

ICG grades Uncirculated Details for MS coins with problems.

 

It would be if it were collected together and analyzed. But that might ruin a good meme. Besides, deep dark conspiracies are just plain fun, right?

I think what we're actually seeing is the inability or unwillingness of the old guard to understand market grading, and not much beyond that. A key tenet of market grading is that a lower numerical grade of a particular coin must NEVER be worth more than a higher one. Think about how that impacts both the XF/AU range and the high AU/ low BU range.

 

It is only with the incorporation of scientific rigor that evidence changes from "anecdotal" to "datapoint." One cohesive group with knowledge of the submitter identity and grade assigned, for a pool of coins into six digits over a period of years, meticulously recorded and analyzed and presented for peer review, might be worth commenting on.

Good luck with that.

 

There is another way...get sued by a TPG, and develop the proof through discovery.

 

That would work.

 

Yeah, let me know how that works out for you.

 

Maybe an easier way is to learn what characteristics bring "sick high" grades. Start with ANY non-black and non-brown toning that is not EDIT: does not look "man forced". I have proven to my satisfaction that color can pretty easily add up to three points on a mint state grade, although two points is more typical.

 

This has been an interesting and informative thread.

 

It would NEVER happen. You could say almost anything you want, slander and libel and defame and lie til the cows come home, and they would never sue you because of what you would be able to prove with discovery. Discovery is the only thing that keeps our legal system from becoming a complete free for all of litigation.

 

Have you SEEN a docket sheet lately?

 

I'm going to throw this out there:

It was graded by the same three PCGS "graders" who graded the supposed PR65RB "Matte Proof" Lincoln. For now, let's call them the "three blind mice" graders...

 

Agreed, he was just asking what they would be if they had graded it that way.

You can probably blame me for some of those lol. I've been known to spend proofs when I just wanted a couple coins from a set

 

That explains why they walk in with the things in their hand!

 

Lol I have no good way to move them so I just spend them . After fees and shipping if I tried eBay I would lose money. Before people flip on me though I am talking recent ones lol.

 

Grade Creep :/