I bought a coin from this seller earlier in my career and was blinded by the possible value, which clouded my judgement. Upon, further inspection, I found that it was obviously whizzed, but it was too late for return. Here is something he has up right now, and this is obviously whizzed, right? http://www.ebay.com/itm/1771-German...4b88590&pid=100005&rk=4&rkt=6&sd=172493127658
NO! It is not whizzed. Perhaps you should post a photo of the coin you bought that you think is whizzed.
Ok, I'm admittedly pretty weak on thalers, but I'm curious... you guys are telling me these marks aren't caused by cleaning? Or are you just saying it's not whizzing? Is this common on thalers? What is it?
The coin was cleaned NOT the die. This is pretty harsh cleaning but not even close to the appearance of a whizzed coin.
Thank you for clarifying. I didn't exactly want to get into a "I don't think those are die scratches" thing on a coin I know very little about.
Here is something to think about. Coins are made of metal. Each metal is different (color, alloy, hardness, etc.). Coins through the ages are struck by different methods and planchets can also be made differently. Coins come from different countries. With all that said, the characteristics we see on coins from all ages tend to look similar. Die polish is similar. An adjustment mark on a 16th Century Thaler looks similar to one on a 1799 US dollar. Cleaning, whizzing, polishing, are virtually always the same. Once a collector learns a few things, they can collect the world. Oh, wait. Authenticity is a different thing.
Eh, I just wanted to make sure nobodies trying to say that abomination would straight grade. (notice rick said "cleaning the die" which I'm assuming he meant coin)
I have recently bought two cheap ($2) key date Japanese modern coins that I think may have been "whizzed." A close look under 5X magnification or higher reveals tiny hairlines. But easier to see is the flatness of the luster, and the "smoothness" of the edges of the dings and nicks in the fields. On top of that, it looks like someone artificially toned 'em with something like "cherry juice" to make them look "red" again. And that was done unevenly, too. All of the above becomes glaringly obvious when compared side-by-side with a true Mint State example of the same coin with nice luster and surfaces.
Plainly cleaned, but the term "whizzing" carries the connotation of high-speed mechanical polishing, which leaves no hairlines behind. Not just polished, but polished so hard it actually shifts metal. That's "whizzing."
SuperDave, posted: "Plainly cleaned, but the term "whizzing" carries the connotation of high-speed mechanical polishing, which leaves no hairlines behind. Not just polished, but polished so hard it actually shifts metal. That's "whizzing." While not as thin as what most of us consider a hairline, some forms of whizzing leave diagnostic "lines" behind. It's these "lines" that give most whizzed coins their "special" luster. Polishing is completely different from whizzing. Therefore, a whizzed coin is never said to be polished. Perhaps it's better to say, "whizzed so hard that it actually shifts metal." This movement of metal is the characteristic that separates whizzing from harsh cleaning.
Fascinating thread; I would love to see some side by side images of whizzed and not whizzed if someone has them. Mlov43 I didn't see any comparisons while checking out your link-nice job by the way!
Here's the poster child for "whizzed." Look for the Barber Half from Lehigh96 a few posts down. https://www.cointalk.com/threads/whizzed-lincoln.243873/ That's "whizzed." Everything polished smooth; any flowlines are long since smothered. Hairlines are highly unlikely after that much buffing.
As stated, the OP's coin in this thread was not whizzed, but yes it was harshly cleaned. The heavy lines you see on the rev are adjustment marks. No, that coin wasn't whizzed either, but it was buffed, which is kind of like polishing but a bit different in the surface characteristics it creates. And just because NGC labled it as whizzed - that doesn't mean anything either - except this, in today's world whizzed has become a generic term that is used, incorrectly, to label a multitude of sins. A coin that has truly been whizzed has a very distinctive and unique look. It is a look that is designed to create a false luster that fools a good many people into thinking it is genuine mint luster. And a whizzed coin has a couple of simple, and easily recognizable diagnostics. 1 - only the fields are whizzed. And 2 - there is metal pushed up to the edges of the devices, legends, and numerals showing as fine lines showing as a "lip" created by the high speed wire wheel used to whiz the coin.
I have a discussion of whizzed surfaces, and show a whizzed coin, in my discussion about surfaces, here: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/a-discussion-about-surfaces-part-2-of-2.256255/
Thanks for your description of whizzing. Those who wish to see an excellent example of a whizzed coin should look at the image of the Barber Half dollar in the thread below. This is what the majority of whizzed coins actually look like. https://www.cointalk.com/threads/whizzed-lincoln.243873/
