1891 Seated Quarter Dollar MPD or Not?

That is the question, I recently bought this 1891 and posted a picture of it in the Lets See your Newest Acquisitions and Paddy54 mentioned that my coin was the MPD. Before he said this I looked at the NGC website to see if there was any varieties with this date and seen the MPD, but didn't think mine was it.

So after he responded that it was the MPD, I busted out my Larry Briggs Blue book on Seated Quarters and looked at the information for the variety.

It states that the 8 and 9 are 'Clearly repunched below the date' Clash marks are seen by the left wrist, right elbow, pole, arm to the right shoulder, and the right knee drapery juncture. The left base of the 1 is over the right of a dentil.

So I see all the clashes, as well as the location of the 1, but I didn't see the misplaced digits, I sent Paddy a DM and he sent me a picture of where he seen it. During the time speaking with Paddy I also sent a message to Larry Briggs himself asking if he could say if it was or was not the MPD, but without the coin in hand, he said he couldn't.

I took some more pictures and he said if I can't see the date than it's a plain 91.... but is it possible to have a plain 91 with all the rest of the die markers?

I was going to send it in for a regrade and variety but I don't want to spend the $50 to have it done if it is in fact a plain jane 91......


What do you think?


PCGS Page- 1891 MPD
NGC Page- 1891 MPD







eBay image of a MS66 that I was using for reference,


10X zoom on my camera of the 8


Close up on my Camera of the 9,


Where Paddy said he sees the MPD,

 

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Can you please tell me.. what the heck is MPD?
What does it stand for

 

I'm wondering too. Best I can think of "Multi Punched Date"

 

@paddyman98 Mis Placed Date

 

Oh ok
Like my MPK this morning
Mis Placed Keys

 

I'm not seeing it ( Date In Denticles ) and here's what were looking for .

 

It's one denticle over to the right, for placement ..

 

The " 8 " isn't in the right placement at all .


Now, look at the placement of the " 8 " on the MPD .

 

I don't see the MPD

 

Thanks, I learned something today.

 

Look at the tip of the shield relative to the date on your coin and the CoinFacts coins. They aren't the same; yours cannot be the same die as the mispunched date.

 

You are all making the assumption (except Paddy) that there can only be one MPD die for the year. I see what Paddy sees, but I'm not sure the opening (top to bottom) is large enough to be the inside of the loop of either the 9 or the 8.

 

You know most members here post and replies in this forum or other forums are based on opinions . Since my opinion is already known , I'm going to stick to my guns on this one. You see that SLQ over there <<<<<<< my avatar that's the coin that sparked my interest in MPD's. It is an 1876 SLQ purchased for $40 some 4 years ago at the very 1st. Gettysburg show .
That coin is an MPD -002 it is an R-7 variety with a premium factor of 3.0%-4.0% x.
Making its value in xf condition about $450. It is considered very rare with my references stating only 6 known !
Now I was going to ask the poster whom replied if any of you have any reference books on MPD's? However since only koinJester knew what MPD'S are I'm am guessing the answer would be no.
I will totally agree with Conder101 statement posted above 100%!
The OP and I have had several PM back and forth about this coin. I can totally understand his concerns over spending money on attribution and regrading. Knowing what he paid....I told him that if my coin budget wasn't in the red ink I would gladly offer him double what he paid.
That's how sure I am of my attribution of this coin.
Since only KoinJester was on point and knew what an MPD was I will share some of the information I've learned over the last 4 years as a variety collector hunting these specimens .
Chances are if you have in your collection one of the following coins in your collection you may have a MPD coin. Large cents,
IHC, two cent pieces , three cent pieces , shield nickels , Seated Half dimes, Seated Dimes, Barber dimes, Seated Quarter ,Seated Halfs,Morgan's , Gold quarter eagle,Half Eagles , and double eagles .
You see MPD'S are sort of the "Where's Waldo" of the numismatics world.
You see they can be right before your eyes and you still never notice them.
They are sometimes as plain as day....other times they can be found in quite a few places.
Seated coinage seems to have the most as they can be hidden in many places. The shield , rock,her dress,denticals , some you can definitely tell that it's a digit,other time they can parts of the numbers,or even mistaken for a die chip. On IHC it can be in her neck, on a shield nickel in the ball.
Again where's Waldo? Well as other items found on coins sometimes you need to train your eyes to see something that can be well camouflaged in so many devices on the coin.
For the most part I say better that 90% members here are unaware that these do exist .
One thing I've learned especially with seated coinage make sure your eyes check out all the known places these digits could be hidden. As Seated coins probably are best known for MPD'S . Especially dates in the 1870's-1890's.
As for IHC 1865-1908. Two and three cent pieces look in the denticals ,and the neck. Shield nickels the ball and denticals , Liberty nickel the denticals .
The list goes on and on for all of the coins I listed above.
Again that die chip may not be a die chip it maybe a piece of a digit , how can you tell? Kevin Flynn has published a quick reference book on these with images,and pups.
I find this book very helpful for a reference when questioning a possible find. The book is not very expensive and we'll worth having in your library .
Again I'm sticking to my guns on this one! And again if lady luck smiles on me and I hit the lottery , and the coin is offered for sale I would buy it in a NY minute .

Above is the 1876 SLQ with the MPD in its denticles. MPD -002.
I will also add between the Variety /R factors , and the toning I wouldn't take 100 times its book value....yes another coin Paddy is taking with him !
I have a few H-10's with dates in her dress as well as the rock if I can locate the images I will post later.

 

I just have a couple of questions
Can we assume that a MPD that is easily identifiable without a microscope will bring a better premium than one that is difficult to decipher?
How rare is an 1891 MPD compared to other years with MPDs?

 

Pop between PCGS and NgC I believe is less than 20ish. There's a MS66 on eBay for $27,000, and a Ms64 for $35,000 if that gives you any idea of the rarity.

 

Like any other coin that would depend on how many are known. The 1876 posted above can be seen easily with a 5 x loop. Even with the naked eye depending on how good your vision is.
What is the R factor? What type a coin is it on?
Take shield nickels there's probably more unknown varieties still out there ....then have been discovered and noted. I say to answer your question the population of these ,or any coin variety plus condition would determine its value.

 

In the image copied yes you can see the digit in the mid denticals . My question what are the curved devices that can be seen that cover the gap on the top of the two of the teeth?

 

It's confuzzling because coinfacts only lists 9 examples graded PCGS with zero auction results. Is there a definitive way to decipher when a variety began being categorized and tracked by coinfacts (I'm kind of guessing this is a more recent addition)?

Also, I don't think the two ebay buy-it-now listings are accurate assessments of value. 10-40x mark-up seems rather high and the coins are definitely not jumping off the shelf at those prices. I found another on Amazon in XF40 listed for 5.8x book value. I could put a 2017 ASE on ebay for 1 million dollars... doesn't mean it's worth 1 million.

At any rate, I'd lean towards the additional expense to regrade fairly inconsequential compared to the existing value of coin plus the increased worth with the variety label. I've just can't figure out a good way to put a numerical value on it due to lack of data (which is usually a good thing for rarity).

Oh, and I also notice that the NGC registry does not give additional points for the variety for whatever that's worth.

 

Like most coins or anything for that matter it is only worth what someone is willing to pay. If you found a buyer who was in the had to have mood then the sky is the limit.
As far as registry goes there's a lot of varieties that add no value to the set. A good example is the 1971 s no s Jefferson nickel. Yes there's a slot for it however with only what 1648 known how fair would it be to allow a limited number of set to be top pop. And I would believe the same thing goes for the no s dimes.

 

Paddy, the only thing about the OP's coin is the area the he marked in red is way to fat to be the top of the 8 or 9 unless the punch was sideways I would say almost impossible to be a MPD.

As for pop numbers in the grand scheme of things is variety collecting is relatively new in the collecting world so there are many coins that haven't been cherry picked for them