A Florin That Shouldn’t Exist… And Yet It Does. Ever Seen Anything Like This?

Hi everyone,

Today, I’d like to share something a little unusual.
Not a deep technical analysis (not just yet), but more of a suggestion, a question, maybe even a small numismatic provocation.

We’re talking about the gold florin.
One of the most iconic medieval coins, struck in Florence starting in 1252, and soon becoming a symbol of trust, stability, and economic power across Europe.
Anyone who collects or studies florins knows how many variations exist between the 13th and 14th centuries, tiny differences in marks, dies, letters, even in the saint’s facial features.

Some variants are well-known. Others are rarer. Some are refined, others rather crude.

But what if I told you I came across a florin that doesn’t appear in any known catalogue?

And I don’t just mean a minor style deviation or a faint letter.
I’m talking about a clearly visible symbol, but one that is uncatalogued, unclassified, untraceable to any known Florentine die or workshop.

And that’s not all.

The saint’s face (Saint John the Baptist on the reverse) appears… hollowed, recessed, almost as if it was struck onto an already contoured surface.
And beneath the lily on the obverse… there are traces of another coin.

A different die? A superimposed coin? A reused blank?

Analysis is underway. I’ve submitted the specimen for XRF testing, and the results are just as intriguing: gold purity above 99.6%, unusually high even for florins of this period.

While I prepare a more detailed write-up, I wanted to ask:

Has anyone here ever seen a florin with:

• A symbol resembling a hat (not a rosette, not a flower, not a letter)?
  
  
• A hollowed or recessed face?
  
  
• Evidence possibly consistent with another coin underneath?
  

Some experts have already confirmed the uniqueness of the piece and are working on a full analysis.
Still, I would truly appreciate hearing from those of you with sharp eyes and keen memory, maybe you’ve seen something similar, something that’s flown under the radar.

Let me leave you with one question:
How much could a florin, one that seems to escape all known classifications, still teach us?

Looking forward to your thoughts,
Stater23

 

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Not an expert, but if I were, the picture is way too small for me to see any detail.

 

Looking forward to an in-depth analysis. Need a much more detailed image though.

Bruce

 

I’m adding a few more photos, and as soon as possible, I’ll post high-resolution images currently in the hands of the experts.

 

adding photos

 

In all probability, it is a florin from any place except Florence. Florins were imitated by other states in for example Savoy, in Geneva, in Germany and in Aragon. Attached is a photo (of a photo) of a florin struck in Perpignan (France, but formerly part of the crown of Aragon) under Peter III of Aragon 1336 - 1387.

 

Thank you very much for your reply and for the photo! That’s really helpful. I wasn’t aware that so many regions imitated the florin. The one from Perpignan under Peter III is particularly interesting. I’ll look into that direction for further comparison. If you notice any more details or have further insights, I’d really appreciate it.
Looking closely at the photos I posted, I think there's a high probability that the florin may have originally been a genovino and later overstruck as a florin. Perhaps this was due to the florin being a more important or widely accepted currency compared to the genovino—or maybe even due to political tensions between Florence and Genoa, trying to reduce the circulation of genovini in favor of florins. Do you also notice any remaining symbols or traces from an earlier coin beneath the florin?