Collector's Acceptance Corporation....The Consortium

I just wanted to see what everybody here thought of the new CAC consortium that is debuting soon. If you haven't heard, they are a group of respected dealers who are uniting and basically grading the coin in grading company slabs. The idea is that they will put their seal of approval (a tamper proof sticker) on coins that they deem to be correctly graded and original. Their goal is to separate truely nice or PQ coins from low quality, overgraded or doctored coins. They are supposed to be using experts in particular fields to examine the coins in that field, rather than generalist graders.

Some of those involved say that this is needed to clean up the TPG grading mess in many areas, like gold, where there are rampant complaints of overgraded coins. They also say that this will help identify doctored coins in holders, as a specialist in a particular area has a better chance at detecting a doctored coin rather than a generalist grader. The CAC is supposedly capatalized at $25 million.

So, what are the opinions of the forum members of this new consortium to examine graded coins? Let the fireworks begin!

 

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Isn't this what the TPGs were supposed to do in the first place?

 

grading the graders?

 

So, now we are slabbing the slabs, in essence.

 

always all thoughts on this return to buy the coin, not the slab

 

Like Doug, I happen to believe this is a failure. However having said that, if it does happen to fly, then Doug and I are thinking of going into business printing up all those little stickers that all these TPG's are going to be using. Now that is where the money will be made.

 

Jeez... I will give (via PayPal) every member here $100 the day the last of the TPGs goes out of business. Closes the doors for good. :vanish: :vanish: :vanish:

The entire TPGing function must be in a historical status, NationWide...

 

I agree:

For the top tier TPG's - It will be a tap dance every time one of these coins is graded differently than their TPG grade - especially if the grade is only one or two off from the original grade. - It's all subjective right...

For the rest - You know you are dealing with a company that is not top tier so do you really need to pay more to have someone tell you so?

The entire concept just sounds like a new TPG.

Question - can you send them an ungraded coin to grade? Or, do you have to pay to have it graded twice (once by a TPG - then verified by this group).

With the second scenario I think most people will consider it insane to have to pay twice for what should be done correctly the first time. Why not just send it to a top tier company and have it graded if there is even a question.

On the buying side - on the high end coins you had better know what you are doing from the start or else you can and probably will lose big. I guess if you are throwing around a large amount of money to invest in bullion and are too lazy or busy to learn about the investment, then maybe you would use this service a few times.

The problem is - if you see that there is not much difference between the actual grade and the new grade then why would you continue to use the service.

And, once you have identified which grading companies are consistently close, you can limit the coins you purchase to these TPG's.

This raises the question - will this new group need to validate their existence by showing most grades are not accurate?

Like you said Robbie - Let the fireworks begin - IMO - they are doomed in the context of the business you described.

 

Well, I think this is just to get their name out there in the press.
It is my belief that they will eventually start their own TGP.
Pretty good marketing ploy, in my opinion.
Discredit the competition a little bit, then start your own.
Pretty slick.

 

Yup, and then PCGS will certify their coins!

So, they both win.

 

No. My understanding is that the coin already has to be graded and that they are verifying the grade on the holder. They are starting by just accepting PCGS and NGC coins only, but are supposed to expand to ICG and ANACS.

To me, it seems like the place that this would be most used would be on high end coins, like six figure coins offered at major auctions. The individuals buying these coins often are not present, and it is already common practice in the hobby to pay a trusted a small fee to examine the coin and bid on your behalf.

 

I guess i will just happen to pop into the situation as an assistant.

 

You got this right.
There are NO standards that are officially accepted by the numismatic community.
You end up with an opinion of an opinion.

 

“To me, it seems like the place that this would be most used would be on high end coins, like six figure coins offered at major auctions. The individuals buying these coins often are not present, and it is already common practice in the hobby to pay a trusted a small fee to examine the coin and bid on your behalf.”

I don’t think that the buyers will be paying for this service. I think this is for the sellers or auction house, at least as it was described.

The way it was described the CAC will:

• Put a sticker on the slab to validate the grade
• or provide some assessment of what they think the grade is or if it’s even authentic

The sellers or auction house wants the buyers confidence.

A buyer does not want to pay so that everyone understands the actual grade/value

IMO - People spending six figures will have their own representative to validate coins, someone who cannot be influenced and will not have potential conflicting interests. People with this kind of money do not have the same cost concerns that normal people have. I cannot see any way that someone will trust the CAC to bid on their behalf for a coin in the six figures. What would happen if multiple clients were using the CAC for the same auction?

Lets not kid ourselves, CAC is probably an effort to carve out a niche in the high-end TPG market. Call it what you want. As a seller, I would not pay to have my coin graded twice. How the the CAC really verify the grade / authenticity of a coin without removing it from the slab to determine correct weight or make accurate measurements?

If sellers see that the grades are good for PCGS or NGC based on the CAC then why will they continue to use the CAC? That already represents a potential for abuse as the CAC will have to show that these other companies are not grading properly (currently subjective) in a significant enough manner to invalidate them.

Too many issues...

 

the CAC will just tweak the grading standards causing most coins to be graded wrong. They'll change a few rules and boom they will have their "fake" purpose in coins

 

Yes, yes, yes, yes.
To many cooks will spoil the broth.

 

Just to toss a little more gasoline on the fire, how about this scenario: the CAC members only accept coins for consignment/resale that they've certified through CAC, or they impose a "discounted value" on those coins that did not go through the CAC re-certification process.

Get enough respected dealers on board, and you've put a choke point on the high end market through the "top tier professionals" (some might say "snob") factor. (Everybody now: "Anything you can slab, I can slab better, I can slab anything better than you...")

Not saying it will happen-- in fact, there is a very low probability that it will happen-- but wouldn't it be interesting if it did... except for yet another Barrier to Entry you've placed on the serious collector with money to spend.

 

It's a silly idea, plain and simple.

 

The "tamper proof sticker" isn't tamper proof.

The integrity of TPGs depends on the integrity of the physical slab itself. It seems much easier to transfer stickers - or even counterfeit 'em - than it is to tamper with slabs.

Deal me OUT.