Now they've gone and done it!

Why would I (or you) call a reclamation center? It is currently illegal to melt copper cents. I know you probably received quotes for metals that were not us coinage, but how do you know an increase in demand from suddenly being able to legally melt coins won't drive offers higher? Or that improvements in refining won't make it cheaper for refiners who can therefore offer more when buying? Too many "ifs" for someone to be speculating how the future will be as "facts" based solely on today's circumstances.

I also stipulated hoarding copper cents is most likely a long term thing. Hence my "probably not a good idea for anyone over 50 years old" comment. How can you tell someone under 50, especially well under 50 that they are wasting their time? You don't know.

 

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Yeah, I think it's the nickles and cents that are illegal, right?

 

yes, Ken. You can't melt nickels and cents.

The silver was issued at a value that was (close to) on par with their value. The melting (also chiseling and scraping) of silver coins has been going on since the mint started making them, and actually before.

 

Make that 1990 when they started putting the mintmarks on the hubs and I'll agree. In 1980 they were still adding the mintmark to each die by hand. They already had thousands of cent dies they had to put D's on, they didn't want to add thousands more dies that they would have to put P's on.

 

If the day comes when melting copper cents is legal, I wonder if there would be enough volume (economy of scale) to have dedicated refinement processes, optimized for the cent's composition, costing less than the generic refinement process, and thus supporting higher prices?

Let's see: to simplify, let's assume no wheat cents get melted, but ALL copper LMCs are recovered and melted, except for the 1982 issues. The total mintage of Lincoln cents, all mints, from 1959-1981, is around 141 billion. That's a lot of cents! At around 3g of copper per coin, that's about 400 billion grams, 400 million kg, or 400,000 tons.

Annual copper production in the US is over one million tons, and annual supply from recycling apparently amounts to somewhere between a quarter and a half of that. That implies that we're already recycling the equivalent of every copper LMC ever made, every year.

Even if there's a great rush to melt and recycle cents once it's legalized, it'll be a relatively small part of the existing copper-recycling flow. There just aren't enough copper cents in existence to serve as a sustainable, high-volume source of copper.

On the other hand, I imagine silver coin melting and recycling is a tiny fraction of the overall silver recycling stream, but the volume of 90% silver is apparently high enough to justify special treatment and advantageous rates from refiners.

So, I still don't know.

 

That is odd. Why is it legal to meal some US coins but not other? Beside Lincolns which other coins are protected? Just nickels?

 

currently the only coins protected from the melting pot are the ones that cost more than face to produce. Nickels and Cents.

 

With all due respect, Endeavor; your entire position is based upon the very "ifs" you're trying to use to discredit Chris'. You may also want to consider the fact that even with it presently being illegal, melting "copper" cents isn't something that incredibly difficult to do, so it's not like it's stopping anyone motivated and so inclined. The reality is if one takes a glob or self-poured bar into a buyer, you're not going to like what they offer, now or even at its historical high.

One also should consider, before suggesting this as some sort of "investment" (especially if only for those under 50) is that a few rolls, a pile of schmo-sold bags, or a bunch of buckets full rotting in the basement aren't going to bring some wonderful return. If one wishes to shoulder a decades-long pain in the ass it's their call, but even if the future was a bright as you seem to suggest, it's a lot of crap and hassle for what at best would be a rather modest "reward".

The fact is reclamation centers will not offer more than face because of the alloy and is really that simple. Perhaps if prices went through the roof (higher than you earlier suggested) this would change, but suggesting it a likelihood is highly questionable at best. I realize there are an unfortunate number of people (not implying you) promoting this as some future windfall, but the facts strongly suggest otherwise.

 

Mainly, I think, because there are no longer any silver coins in circulation (except as people occasionally re-introduce them, usually by mistake), so melting them has no effect on day-to-day transactions. However, melting pennies and nickels removes them from circulation, so it would harm the U.S. economy for people to melt them.

 

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Honestly we should just stop making pennies for reasons stated above. Why even have two mints when half of the coins produced are pennies?

They just end up in sticky cupholders and change jars. Not to mention when we got rid of the 1/2C it was worth 14 cents in today's money.

 

Maybe to get ready for the day when they get rid of all coinage I should start collecting old debit and credit cards.

 

Maybe to get ahead of the curve we should establish a grading/slabbing service for them!

 

This one is sure to be a favorite in everyone's collection!

 

I never understood why they decided to add the P mint mark in 1979/80. But you are right...it makes no sense that the cent didn't get one then.

 

See post #44.


Never mind misunderstood Camaro's post

 

Haha...me english not so good.

Actually, you make an excellent point though. The most logical time for the change would have been in 1990 when the MM became part of the hub. It would have been a ton less labor intensive and by then the cent was no longer being minted as west point.

 

it's funny, this made me think, "I wonder if the similarity of a D and a P ever was confused and the Mint sent a wrong die to Denver. And what if the die got used??? And how would we be able to tell??? We can't... oh, nevermind."

 

It's a little off-topic, but as I've said in other places, I think a total re-working of the whole thing would make "cents":

half-dime sized copper 10c piece
dime-sized quarter dollar
nickel-sized half dollar
quarter-sized dollar
half-dollar sized 5-dollar coin (or possibly a smaller bi-metallic coin)
10 dollar bill (could also be done as a coin)
20 dollar bill
50 dollar bill
100 dollar bill
500 dollar bill
1000 dollar bill

Then, it would once again be possible to do dinner and movie on pocket change. It would eliminate tons of waste & inefficiency. Each transaction involving change takes time, and when you multiply it by 330,000,000, metering out all those insignificant cents and nickels is a waste of everyone's time.