Greek owl- I joined the club

This was a major one checked off my want list. Looked at so many of these I got tired of looking at them. Finally I decided on this one. Had never handled one in real life. The bust of Athena on the obverse is usually so large that some, if not a major part of the design is usually cut off. This one is no different. I guess you just have to pick what part of the design you want to see the most. The relief is crazy. Required a thicker holder. This is a bit over one half ounce of silver. It dwarfs the little, debased, Roman denarii that I've been collecting lately. Strike 5/Surface 3. I don't know what's wrong with the surface other than it is notated with "scratches". There's a fine scratch on the cheek that is difficult to see.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Nice one, and welcome to the club!

 

nice score
been trying to obtain on
but the prices have been getting out of hand the last time i chequed on them . . . =/

 

When it comes to the Owl, I'm also in the "major one to check off my list" category. I just can't get myself to pull the trigger though because I feel no sense of urgency with this coin, as there are always plenty to pick from in almost every auction (and always will be). My fear is that I'll blow my current budget on an Owl and then something will immediately come along that is only available every couple of years .

Nice coin though, I'd certainly be happy with that one.

 

My only owl, probably ever, is this little one, probably a Phoenician imitation. 8 mm, .55 g. Terrible condition, but, hey, for the princely sum of $5, it's OK. (I definitely like yours better, however.)

 

The Athenian Owl has long been on my "I'd like to have one" list. Yours is nice.

 

Nice owl!

My experience regarding NGC's surface grading is that they look at the surfaces for deposits, toning (color), porosity, corrosion, etc. As far as that it concerned, an ancient coin is inherently going to have surface issues for the vast majority. Therefore I give little credence to this measure and to a certain extent strike as well, initially.

When looking at an ancient coin, whether in a slab or not, ignoring any slab information initially, evaluate the coin on your own. Of course if you don't have experience with a given type, doing research helps. After that step, and you've formulated your impressions, then look at the other information. It seems that all to often many collectors' decisions are solely driven by the grading numbers. More often than not I don't agree with those numbers, but then we are basically making subjective judgements, so in the end this is the collector's choice, based on personal preferences.

 

As stated above by @Cherd, there are usually several
to choose from in many auctions. Were there hoards
recently discovered that I missed the news on?

 

Incredible coin!

I'm looking to buy my own Athens Owl. I see this one for sale:

NGC says it's "CH AU" with 5/5 strike and 4/5 surface.
They're asking 2 and 1/2 thousand dollars...

Not sure what to do. Maybe I'll wait for the next big coin show?

 

Great coins - it is on my list as well - but it is odd how the prices seem to same no matter how many are available

 

Don't buy that one, you can get a lot nicer one for less money.

 

Yeah, I figured that. I have to find a reputable Ancient dealer.
Thanks...

 

My recommendation would be to buy one in an auction format. Why pay a price that meets a dealer's profit margin requirements when you can pay a price based on what the next person is willing to pay? I feel that the benefits of this dynamic especially apply with common, yet valuable coins. If you are disciplined about letting overpriced coins slide then you'll eventually land yourself a deal. Buying a coin like this from a dealer will never be a deal.

 

Maybe because it's actually a good deal...maybe it's a rare type that infrequently shows up...maybe you collect specific things and have to buy when they are available. If you are a generalist and not looking for specific things; then sure, only buy from auctions-- of course in many high end auctions you can easily overpay for something that a dealer may have priced at a more reasonable price. If you are an advanced collector, you will buy from wherever the coins are that fit your collecting focus.

 

If you are purchasing an item from a dealer and getting a good deal, then whomever the dealer purchased the item from must have gotten ripped off. This is why I generally don't like the idea of profit motivated middle men when it comes to collectables. The required profit margin has to be eaten by either the buyer, the seller, or both. I'd prefer a world where the values were determined based purely on availability and collector demand. I'm not naïve enough to think that we could possibly live in a perfect world in any respect, but one can dream!

We probably agree on this point, but I did specify that my advice especially applied to "common, yet valuable coins".

Again, we agree. But I also specified that one had to be "disciplined about letting overpriced coins slide".

Edit: Admittedly, my saying "buying a coin like this from a dealer will never be a deal" was over-stating my case and not true. But I do believe this sentiment is true in a general sense.

 

With the rich silver deposits in Laurium, as well as tax revenues from allies and the silver treasury of the Delian League, the Athenians were able to mint an estimated one million owls annually from 440 BC to 404 BC, according to Kallet and Kroll. Output did drop towards the end of the Peloponnesian War, and Athens had to resort to silver plated coinage and gold didrachms (extremely rare).

Here's an example of the plated owls, quite rare and not to be confused with plated unofficial fourrees.

Attica, Athens plated tetradrachm, circa 406-404 BC.
Sear 2535
13.80 grams


The Athenian owl was the dominant coin for trade and commerce, a "treasury" coin, throughout the Eastern Mediterranean from approximately 440 BC to the introduction of Alexander III's coinage in approximately 330 BC. So it is not surprising that huge hoards of owls from various periods are discovered in the region. One gargantuan hoard came out of Turkey around 2017, rumored to total 30,000 coins comprised of mostly standardized owls. Many other hoards have entered the market as well, so the supply is plentiful. That means that a collector looking for a type coin has lots of options.

Personally I stay away from slabbed owls (and other ancient coins) if I can. I pay little attention to the numbers on the slabbed coin and instead judge the coin on its own merits. I look for coins with pleasing style typifying the period, and that can mean a lower grade coin, such as this one, whose obverse I use as an avatar on another forum site:

Attica, Athens, owl, circa 465 BC.
Star Group III
16.95 grams


The wear is obvious and the centering for the obverse, plus the flan size, precludes any detail of the crest, but the archaic modeling of Athena, with the archaic smile is a wonderful feature.

As a rule of thumb the quality of the die work declines starting in 440 BC, when large minting ramped up. The relief declines and the features become somewhat less refined. The flans are sometimes larger, on the other hand, allowing for more the crest to appear. Quantity prevailed over quality.

Here's a late transitional/early standardized owl:

Attica, Athens, owl late transitional, circa 445-440 BC.
16.8 grams


And here are a couple of later standardized owls:

Attica Athens standardized owl, after 440 BC.


Attica, Athens, owl, 440-404 BC. From Roma E-Sale 88, lot 138.
17.23 grams

 

Great discussion guys! Appreciate the additional info @robinjojo . Very interesting. As far as the market goes for these, it all depends on how picky you want to be. I know there were many made and many of these still out there. They are an instance of high demand driving prices higher. I wish I would have purchased one a couple decades ago but they just weren't on my radar.

I went with this one not because it was the best deal I could find. I could have bought one for 40-50% less. I just wanted to be happy with the one I got. These can have more undesirable features than their modern counter parts. The first thing to consider is centering.
I'm hardly a novice just getting into ancients a bit here but it is clear that centering of the designs, both sides, plays a major role in value with these and others. Then I'm looking at strike quality. Are all parts of the design present? Are all the details in the owl and the olive leaves there? What's the color like? Are there flaws on the planchet? "Globs" covering something? Weird dents or chop marks. Stains. Maybe it was a weird planchet to begin with? Major cracks, odd shaped sections missing or clipped sides. I can accept some small cracking. A few cracks are actually cool to me. They are crude. Many are off center and have major flaws. Some of this is to be expected. Comes down to what do you want to pay for? I think some of the flawed ones they ask too much for. When they get past all the above criteria, the value goes up. Many were not made well to begin with.

The example in the last picture above this post here is nicer than mine. I would have bought that one too. Really like the crisp helmet details. There's nothing particularly distracting on the major elements of the design.

Being slabbed didn't bother me. For the sake of storage and ID, I prefer it. Have unslabbed stuff to handle if I want to.