1893 S Morgan - Real or Fake

I may not read any further:

I'm around. The coin is raw not in a slab.

If you like the coin and the price, you have 30 days to return it, right?

We can do the walk through in less than an hour for under $100.

 

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Cannot tell from the image. I pay no attention to the date or mintmark to authenticate these coins. If there is no die polish line in the "T" that is not a good sign.

 

From the images it is a dead on fake; I doubt any of the TPG's are going to certify it as genuine missing the markers and being off in other comparisons...

 

Those images make it look like a cast... I will hold to my offer; my Friend at ICG is willing to do a same day review and I will have the metal tested and look closer at the details in-hand.

 

edit

 

Based on everything the experts in this thread have posted, as well as your very quickly eroding time line, I'd say at this juncture you're keeping the coin or returning it to the seller.

It took one week for you to receive it.
Let's be optimistic and say you can get the coin to @Jack D. Young in five days. Shipping it tomorrow, May 16th, Jack will receive it Thursday, May 22.
Jack immediately examines the coin, and tests it, AND ships it to Skip, @Insider, @ ICG the same day May 22.
Five days to get to ICG is Wednesday, May 28th.
Skip walks the coin through authentication, grading and shipping. The coin goes out same day ICG received it on May 28th.
Shipping back to Jack takes five days. He receives it June 3rd. Jack immediately turns it around and ships it back to @Gdobie same day.
Five day shipping to Gdobie, and he receives it Monday, June 9th. Deadline is passed and the seller still hasn't received the returned coin. It's not even shipped by Gdobie yet.

I included Saturdays in my five day shipping. I did not include Sundays.

This scenario assumes every single step in the process works perfect. No delay in any step, and it doesn't work. Add any delay and the deadline falls farther behind.

 

How many obv dies were used? Has there ever been a thought of other obv dies? just a question, the coin looks like it has tell tell radial die movement.

 

So far as we know, there was one obverse die. There might be records which show how many dies San Francisco received from Philadelphia or how many dies Philadelphia shipped, but I am not aware of that.

 

Adding to the above, even if we knew how many dies were shipped, we don’t know if they were used. For example, Three Dollar Gold Piece dies were sent to the Charlotte Mint in 1854. None of them were used.

 

I'm going to assume the OP is hanging on to the coin at least over the weekend...

 

Yeah, I’m taking it to the coin show tomorrow in Peotone, IL. Josh Dale one of the organizers told me to see Isaak in the first booth.

Thanks for the feedback!. Yeah there’s no line and while it’s 91% silver and 7% copper it’s also got traces of nickel zinc and platinum.

Based on what I’ve learned from Jack and the others my theory is the face was made using a 1993 P and then the reverse an S from a different year.

At this point I’m pretty sure it’s a fake and hopefully will confirm tomorrow at the coin show.

Thanks again for your and everyone’s feedback!

 

Let play a little game of “one of these things is not like the others, three of these things are kinda the same” shall we.

using a technique I learned from the group, I believe this pretty much confirms what Jack’s been saying from day one.

I still plan on going to the coin show but I think this coins going back to the seller

 

You would be good to let that one go back. IMO

 

The coin as absolutely and totally fake. The seller is a flat-out liar. ICG would never call this coin "genuine".

From the look of it, it may be a modern Chinese production.

There are two known die pairings. Both die pairings (VAM-1 and VAM-2) share the same obverse die (the reverse die is different between VAM-1 and VAM-2).

The coin in question does not have the proper date placement for a genuine 1893-S.

If the seller gives you any grief in returning it, remind the seller that it is illegal to sell counterfeit currency without disclosing that the item is false.

See attached date alignment image that I made for comparison.

 

thank you kindly, sir. Yes and I found this article with more on the date alignment:

https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/vam-2-1893-s-morgan-dollar.html

And with my new knowledge I found another one on sale now:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/405857828405

I let the seller know about the date alignment and told him it was a fake

 

That other eBay coin is positively a modern Chinese-style make, and probably not even made of silver (or silver-plated at best).

PS:

The seller's 30-day limit on returning for refund doesn't mean squat when counterfeit United States coin or currency is involved. So don't let them refuse the return for any reason.

 

This has been totally overthought IMHO; if a dealer at the coin show tells you it is genuine sell it to him...

 

I like it, but that's just going to stir the pot.

 

You should buy it; certainly worth more than the OP paid if you "like it".

 

That coin, if legit, is worth far more then asking price. I'd be very suspicious of this coin as well.