1893 S Morgan - Real or Fake

I recently purchased a 1893 S Morgan Silver Dollar trying to complete my album. The post on eBay showed the test of 90% silver (see link below). I took the coin to the local coin dealer and they also tested it but couldn't confirm authenticity because there were traces of Zink, Platinum and Nickle (see photo). They pointed out that the die crack in the T was also missing. The seller said they had the coin checked by ICG who said it was authentic. I have 30 days from 5/2/25 to return for a refund but if it's real, I think I got a great deal so, I'd hate to send it back. On the other hand if it's fake and I have to resell someday I'll be screwed. I'd like to get it Professionally graded or authenticated by PCGS or NGC but wouldn't have time. Any advice or guidance from the group would be very much appreciated.

This is what the seller said "I bought that coin and a lot of other higher end CC morgans from a local doctors family. He passed away . I weighed the coin and brought to ICG in tampa, they said it was authentic but I chose to sell it raw because they said it could come back details."

https://www.ebay.com/itm/316744630197

 

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Not a Morgan expert here but there are a lot of bogus Morgans out there right now. I wouldn't touch a coin that valuable that was not certified and slabbed. Particularly a Morgan. And I know the folks at ICG. Why on earth would they confirm authenticity and not slab the piece accordingly? That doesn't pass the smell test to me and I truly hate to say that.

 

Hey Randy, thanks for the feedback. This is what the seller said "I bought that coin and a lot of other higher end CC morgans from a local doctors family. He passed away . I weighed the coin and brought to ICG in tampa, they said it was authentic but I chose to sell it raw because they said it could come back details."

 

Well.... Again, not being a fellow that specializes in Morgan's I sure wouldn't dare try to dissect the diagnostics of the coin. What I do know is that no legitimate seller in this day and time would attempt to market ANY four figure coin that wasn't certified and slabbed..... Don't get me wrong. They are still out there. But an "authentic" ICG slab is quite common. I have a number of them in my collection..... I am going to make a call out here to one of the fellows at ICG that looks at these coins and has been a professional grader for many, many years. I wonder if he may recall seeing the coin... Hey @Insider are you around?

 

The emailed testimony of an ebay seller is worth... well, it's not worth as much as a slab from a reputable TPG, that's for sure.

"I showed it to ICG and they said it was genuine"? I'll believe that when I see the coin in an ICG slab.

Don't let the pursuit of "a great deal" trump common sense. You have a local dealer who has examined the coin in hand, put it under XRF, and given two separate lines of evidence that it's fake. You have no reason to trust this seller, and every reason to doubt them.

Send it back while you still can.

 

Ask the seller to extend the return policy and send it in for authentication.
The dealer if legit won't have and problem...if they do there is your answer.

 

I'll add this only because I believe it merits saying..... You and I are about the same age and we grew up in a time where trusting a man's word meant something. Sadly, our hobby is infected with a lot of people that don't have any scruples at all. Be very wary when trading on Ebay. We are even seeing bogus slabbed coins on Ebay of late.

 

That sounds like a great story but it's not worth $3775. Send it back and pray you get a refund. Remember; the time to ask us about a purchase is before you buy the coin.

Happy Collecting!

 

It looks fake to me.

 

The seller has good feedback in the thousand's.
The XRF is about spot on.
The weight is within tolerance.
If the diameter and thickness is within tolerance?
Now that he has it in hand, maybe a second opinion and bring a known good Morgan dollar to test and compare...XRF and Sigma comparison.

The coin may clean up well in Acetone, but at that point you'll own it.
I'd contact the seller and ask more questions. IF I was the seller I'd work with you to make the sale.
Maybe send it back...you have each other's contact information...let him send it in to authenticate and buy it later (private party)?

 

I've only seen one '93-S Morgan so far and it was a lowly G-6 (IIRC... maybe an 8) and it looked better than that. Maybe it's just the pictures, but that thing doesn't look right to me. I would think the eagle's breast feathers should be rubbed flat when comparing to the wear on the hair. The denticles don't look right either.

This is one of, if not, the most counterfeited Morgan coins ever. Buyer beware when buying raw, especially without having it in hand to go over with a fine tooth comb and a sigma / XRF.

 

Then let them grade it. I see bidders fight over details coins that rare. Then you can sell without regrets or wondering if you passed a fake piece off.

 

I would surmise that for every one of us dedicated collectors that there are a hundred casual collectors that are keeping these crooks in business. Most folks will buy a few of these and throw them in the sock drawer never bothering to check diagnostics and the like. They just want to tuck something away…. How else do these counterfeit artists proliferate our beloved hobby with so heavily with these fakes?

 

I'm going to post a new thread involving a likely fake, rather than stomp on this thread. Stay tuned.

 

Randy, will ICG allow a walk through for a grading? Might be worth asking them, and still have an open return window. I think NGC is also in Tampa? I don't know what their walk through policies are. For a coin this rare, you'd think either of them would grant an exception, it's not something you see very often.

 

Never investigated such an arrangement. No idea if they would.

 

As an intermediate collector of a Morgan set myself, my question would be why there are other metals showing up in the scan at all? Is this normal? If silver is silver and copper is copper, these were an alloy of 90% pure silver and 10% pure copper. There shouldn't be any other metals in it.

China has the dies and the presses to make Morgans today and in the past. They can re-strike real morgans. Usually they come out looking like the 2021s though. The black coloring isn't unhread of as I have some old original ones passed down from family that have turned black. The wavinesss around the top edge of the rim on the front looks a little suspsect too.

Coins like this need to be in third party slabs to be considered. The seller should have already done it for you. I would have told them if you send it to "X" grader you prefer, and it comes back genuine, I'll pay you the grading fee plus a $100 bonus. If it's fake you pay me $100 for the hassle. See if they took the offer.

You can get expedited grading if you pay for it. A coin like that can be shipped overnight to NGC with EX on the box for express service and it can be graded within 5 days if you have to find out for yourself. You already have a lot invested, now you're committed.

 

This is an excuse to try to make more money than he should on the coin. If it is a details coin, it should get a details price. At least the slab could help verify authenticity. NGC has a conservation service that might work for this. If it is real, they may be able to treat it and make it look much better than it now. If it gets in a slab with a lot better look to it, the value would likely exceed what you paid. Best of luck.

Edit: If you're wondering about grade after treatment, I had a mint product treated by NCS for a red spot that later was sent into grading down there and it got a MS70.

 

Now that you mentioned this...
I was buying a Distressed Diamond for $8500
Sight unseen just a picture and a receipt of what the seller said he paid for the ring.
The 1.4 carat GIA Certified Round diamond was retailing for around $17,000.
After a lot of back and forth with the seller, I finally talked him into what I thought would be best for both of us.
Mind you we are both on opposite sides of the country.
I didn't want to send him $8500 and he didn't want to send me a ring he spent $20k on.
Reasonable Enough RIGHT?
I found a broker that would hold my money and his ring until both parties were happy and ready to deal.
I sent my money to the Broker, he sent the ring.
After the broker verified the diamond was what it was (1.4ct VS 1 GIA Certified ideally cut)
I had the broker remove the diamond from the ring and send the diamond back to GIA to get it recertified and laser Inscribed with the new certification number.
As soon as GIA had the work done I had the broker send the seller back the rest of his ring and my money.
GIA sent the diamond to Texas to a custom jeweler that was making me a custom engagement ring.
I paid all the fees for the broker, shipping costs and GIA costs...jeweler costs and I won't tell you what I paid for the final product

At this point I would contact the seller and see if they are willing to wait for a certification or get it certified and then proceed.
It gets a little sticky and the guide lines should have been brought up before the sale...hard to do when it's an Auction type setting and not a BIN.

 

I would only ask it you think it matches one of the only 2 known reverses for this one?