I would believe it would be both. To fit that most eloquent summation of a retain cud that was stated. But don't forget you've been collecting long enough to know there are varieties. That's why there's so many phases of a retain cud, and of course like everyone else I prefer the A variety. But I also like The B variety as of the second coin showed. And as usual nobody likes the C variety which is the first coin I showed, that only shows I appeal is everything when it comes to coins and judges the value of that coin. I personally like them all. We must not forget that I appeal is not everything, there is more to and error that is shown. This is only my opinion I believe the eloquent statement was made concerning this kind of a retain cud shown in photo.
Just found this 94 it's in far better shape than the thread 94. And it looks like the one I have on cuds on coins.
The problem with lateral displacement is that,yes the piece has moved, but you can't tell if it is still attached to the rest of the die or not. And if the piece of the die has not broken off completely it is just a die crack not a die break. Think of splitting a log. If the log doesn't split completely you have lateral displacement, but still just one piece of wood. But for the piece to have vertical displacement, either up or down, it has to be completely detached from the die body. Now you have a die break, and either a retained cud if the piece of the die is still present, or a full cud if it has fallen away completely. That is why I say there has to be vertical displacement to be a retained cud. Lateral displacement isn't good enough.
Very good explanation! The problem is that there are too many experts whose (differing) opinions are accepted simply because they have a website that says it is so. Chris
I somewhat agree with Conder though I doubt for most examples of retained cuds , whether they are the lateral displacement or vertical , that you can trace them to an actual full cud. It may boil down to how define retained. Loose and somehow retained against the die so it can strike coins as it moves vertically away from the die face. Or. Retained by a tethering piece of metal so it can strike coins as it moves laterally away from the die face
Found this 1998 die crack with a retained cud on the reverse. And a nice little crack on the overs from the rim to the bust.
