Featured Aegina stater

Odysseas · Dec 26, 2016

AncientJoe said: ↑

I've neglected to post several of my new coins for quite some time and will hopefully get into a more regular cadence of uploading.

I bought this coin out of the most recent Gemini sale. After being somewhat underwhelmed by the picture in the catalog, I assumed I wouldn't be bidding on it. However, upon seeing it in hand, I was blown away and knew I would have to chase after it anticipating considerable competition. I'm becoming increasingly surprised by the range in photography quality by auction houses and dealers: the Gemini picture didn't show any of the iridescence in this coin and I think that is a very important aspect of its overall aesthetics. I won it considerably under my max bid, which is always a good feeling.

The sale was on the Sunday after the long NYINC show, so I imagine most dealers were already on their way home: the auction was one of the fastest I've ever witnessed, and I almost missed bidding on it myself but luckily happened to check the progress, assuming I'd have a hundred lots to go but mine was up in 20.

This coin comes from the Millennium Collection sold by Goldberg in 2008 which had a stunning array of coins (including an aureus featuring the Colosseum). I'm very pleased to have acquired it, considering its pedigree and condition, and that it didn't increase in price much over the 2008 sale.

"Aegina. Aegina, c. 380-360 BC. AR Stater (12.01 g). Top view of tortoise with segmented shell. Reverse: Large "refined" skew pattern incuse with five segments. Pozzi 3666; cf. Dewing 1686; cf. SNG Cop. Suppl. 264; SNG Delepierre 1545 ff. The tortoise of remarkable high relief, sharply struck, and perfectly centered on a flan of extraordinary size. Toned, with residual luster of lighter color. Rare in this quality."

I took some perspective shots as well:

Here are some snippets from various auction houses describing the tortoise coinage of Aegina:

"The silver issues of Aegina were immense: it was one of the chief trading coinages of the 6th and earlier 5th centuries, especially in the Peloponnesos, the Islands and in Central Greece where its weight standard was dominant. Exactly why turtles or tortoises appear on the coinage of Aegina is not clear: it was not a sacred animal. One suggestion is that early, pre-coinage silver ingots in use in the Aegean area were plano-convex in shape; and that on Aegina they were colloquially known as ‘turtles.’ Thus, when coins were introduced, using the turtle as a coin type was a reference to the older, pure-silver ingots that had previously been used in trade."

"It is usually assumed that the later issues of Aegina, from the 5th century on into the 4th, bear a tortoise rather than a sea turtle because of her loss of any pretension of sea power due to her defeat by Athens. This seems rather illogical, however, since states do not usually commemorate their defeat on their own coinage! On the contrary, this change almost certainly has to do with changes in religious ritual."

"The island of Aegina was probably the first state in European Greece to issue coined money (mid-sixth century BC). The Aeginetans were famed for their seamanship and were a considerable naval power in the Aegean area. Their didrachm-stater of about 12.6 grams became the accepted standard for numerous mints in the Cyclades, in Crete and in Asia Minor, as well as in Greece itself. In 445 BC, the Thirty Years Peace guaranteed Aegina's autonomy, and a new variant of the Aeginetan coinage was introduced. This depicted the turtle (now usually described as a tortoise) with a segmented carapace in place of the smooth shell of the archaic period. However, with the outbreak of Peloponnesian War in 431 BC, the Aeginetans were expelled from their homes and the island was occupied by Athenian cleruchs, a situation that prevailed until the Athenian defeat in 404 BC."

Let me know if you have any questions, and please post your turtles as well, especially the earlier sea turtles if you have them!
Click to expand...

That's amazing coin!!!!
And evenly toned!
I wish you keep it to the end.
It's not sea turtle as I see.
One of the best examples I ever saw!

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Odysseas · Dec 26, 2016

Odysseas said: ↑

That's amazing coin!!!!
And evenly toned!
I wish you keep it to the end.
It's not sea turtle as I see.
One of the best examples I ever saw!
Click to expand...

Nobody can tell if it's counterfeit from a picture.

Andres2 · Dec 26, 2016

I believe its an older coin from AntiquaNova , not the silver one , but the tin one,
these are nowadays 21mm , mine is 24 mm, over time they develop a nice cabinet toning. I bought this one with a lot of others in a lot from an eBayseller.
Paid $3 a piece, it didn't fool Bing but TIF nailed it , congrats
(from my black cabinet picture)

dougsmit · Dec 26, 2016

I forget where I read this but I recall the Sea Turtle was replaced with the land tortoise when Aegina was defeated by Athens and lost their navy. Remember the AntiquaNova fakes in tin are not marked with the S so not seeing scraping in this area just means the coin is not one of their real silver ones.

Andres2 · Dec 26, 2016

Heres an older pure silver one, nice toning,without the S, it can probably fool many collectors.
Wonder how many are already in peoples ancient collections ?

Gallienus · Jan 6, 2017

Skakke said: ↑

Thank you all for your input. ... but I'm always open for opinions.
Click to expand...

Well fortunately Kunker is a very reliable firm. I have no doubt that if further tests show that the coin may be non-ancient, they'll have no problem taking it back. If you ever get a metallurgical analysis done, I'd like to know about the silver % and trace elements.

I'd guess if this was a counterfeit, then it'd have to be a counterfeit die. Thus it'd be extremely expensive to make just one? I haven't seen any others showing this exact die before which one would expect were it a counterfeit. The verdigres up around the turtle's head also appears to be thick enough as to be very hard to do recently.

Gallienus · Jan 9, 2017

Skakke said: ↑

Looking at this Aegina, it reminds me of one of the late style staters in my collection.
Click to expand...

Actually as results from 2017 NYINCS come in I've seen a lot of very inferior pieces (Tortoises) bringing good sums. Your coin is very exceptional.

Also seems that I haven't gotten much or anything so far out of NY, but then it appears that coin prices are really taking off. Everything is really bringing super high sums: not at all like NYINCS in 2016!

Curtisimo · Jan 9, 2017

AncientJoe said: ↑

I've neglected to post several of my new coins for quite some time and will hopefully get into a more regular cadence of uploading.

I bought this coin out of the most recent Gemini sale. After being somewhat underwhelmed by the picture in the catalog, I assumed I wouldn't be bidding on it. However, upon seeing it in hand, I was blown away and knew I would have to chase after it anticipating considerable competition. I'm becoming increasingly surprised by the range in photography quality by auction houses and dealers: the Gemini picture didn't show any of the iridescence in this coin and I think that is a very important aspect of its overall aesthetics. I won it considerably under my max bid, which is always a good feeling.

The sale was on the Sunday after the long NYINC show, so I imagine most dealers were already on their way home: the auction was one of the fastest I've ever witnessed, and I almost missed bidding on it myself but luckily happened to check the progress, assuming I'd have a hundred lots to go but mine was up in 20.

This coin comes from the Millennium Collection sold by Goldberg in 2008 which had a stunning array of coins (including an aureus featuring the Colosseum). I'm very pleased to have acquired it, considering its pedigree and condition, and that it didn't increase in price much over the 2008 sale.

"Aegina. Aegina, c. 380-360 BC. AR Stater (12.01 g). Top view of tortoise with segmented shell. Reverse: Large "refined" skew pattern incuse with five segments. Pozzi 3666; cf. Dewing 1686; cf. SNG Cop. Suppl. 264; SNG Delepierre 1545 ff. The tortoise of remarkable high relief, sharply struck, and perfectly centered on a flan of extraordinary size. Toned, with residual luster of lighter color. Rare in this quality."

I took some perspective shots as well:

Here are some snippets from various auction houses describing the tortoise coinage of Aegina:

"The silver issues of Aegina were immense: it was one of the chief trading coinages of the 6th and earlier 5th centuries, especially in the Peloponnesos, the Islands and in Central Greece where its weight standard was dominant. Exactly why turtles or tortoises appear on the coinage of Aegina is not clear: it was not a sacred animal. One suggestion is that early, pre-coinage silver ingots in use in the Aegean area were plano-convex in shape; and that on Aegina they were colloquially known as ‘turtles.’ Thus, when coins were introduced, using the turtle as a coin type was a reference to the older, pure-silver ingots that had previously been used in trade."

"It is usually assumed that the later issues of Aegina, from the 5th century on into the 4th, bear a tortoise rather than a sea turtle because of her loss of any pretension of sea power due to her defeat by Athens. This seems rather illogical, however, since states do not usually commemorate their defeat on their own coinage! On the contrary, this change almost certainly has to do with changes in religious ritual."

"The island of Aegina was probably the first state in European Greece to issue coined money (mid-sixth century BC). The Aeginetans were famed for their seamanship and were a considerable naval power in the Aegean area. Their didrachm-stater of about 12.6 grams became the accepted standard for numerous mints in the Cyclades, in Crete and in Asia Minor, as well as in Greece itself. In 445 BC, the Thirty Years Peace guaranteed Aegina's autonomy, and a new variant of the Aeginetan coinage was introduced. This depicted the turtle (now usually described as a tortoise) with a segmented carapace in place of the smooth shell of the archaic period. However, with the outbreak of Peloponnesian War in 431 BC, the Aeginetans were expelled from their homes and the island was occupied by Athenian cleruchs, a situation that prevailed until the Athenian defeat in 404 BC."

Let me know if you have any questions, and please post your turtles as well, especially the earlier sea turtles if you have them!
Click to expand...

Awesome coin!

The fact that there were any Aeginetans left to mint any coins at this time is remarkable. After Athens exiled them from Aegina in 431 BC the Spartans resettled them near Argos in a town called Thyrea. When Athens attacked and burned the city in 424 BC they resettled the non-Aeginetan inhabitants to islands throughout Ionia but had every Aeginetan prisoner genocidally put to death.

After the war the Spartans allowed the handful that escaped to resettle thier island.

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