So, coin submitted for crossover does not cross. What next?

First, a rant. I always ask for coins to cross at the same grade … for the first submission. When coins don’t cross, the grading service does not tell you what grade they think it is. This is a rip-off. I paid to have the coin graded, you graded it, so why not tell me what grade you think it is other than less than what’s on its current holder?

One option … what the grading service is hoping for … is that you’ll submit it again allowing a cross at a lower grade. I’ve done this a few times successfully. The problem is what if the graders think the coin is a problem coin or fake? You could keep submitting with one grade notch lower allowed each time and never have it cross. And often, a coin can be resold in its current holder for more than its value in a new TPG holder but at a lower grade.

You could crack-out the coin and submit it raw. If you resubmit it in the same holder, it will immediately appear on the TPG computer system as having failed to cross before … so it won’t cross again. They’ll go through the motions of grading, but the result will be the same. But submitting raw has big risks. What if it comes back with a much lower grade or as a problem coin or a fake?

You could sell it and put the money toward the same coin in the TPG holder you really want. Problem can be that it may be an issue that doesn’t come on the market often at the grade you want in the holder you want. But this may be the best option if you are determined to have the issue in a different TPG holder but at the same grade as the current holder.

Finally, you could decide to be satisfied with coin in its present holder.

Cal

 

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Do you happen to have a picture available? That way we have a better idea about what we're dealing with.

 

PCGS says this:

• Minimum Grade Options:
• CURRENT – Requests coin to cross at grade listed on holder.
• ANY – Requests coin to cross at any numerical grade (01-70).
• DETAILS – Requests coin to cross at any numerical grade or Genuine no-grade.
• OTHER GRADE – If you would like to specify a different grade than listed on the
holder, write your acceptable numerical grade (include suffix if applicable)

I assume "other grade" means you can specify a minimum. But then it also says this:

» Minimum grades are not accepted for regrade or reconsideration service types.

And then

• RECONSIDERATION: Use the Reconsideration service if you would like to have your
coin regraded without being removed from its current PCGS holder. The coin will only
be removed if it upgrades. Select one of the options below.
1. Upgrade by full numeric grade (Default). If your coin’s grade is determined to
improve by one numeric point or more (i.e. 63 to 64 or 63+ to 64).
2. Upgrade by Plus grade ONLY. If your coin’s grade is determined to improve by a
Plus grade (i.e. 58 to 58+).
3. Upgrade by Suffix. If your coin’s designation is determined to improve by suffix
even if the coin’s grade does not improve (i.e. PL to DMPL, CA to DC, BN to RB).
4. Any: Will accept options 1, 2, or 3

So it seems like @calcol needs to digest all of this and decide what they're trying to accomplish and which option to pick. Personally all these gyrations with holders and grades are too much effort but I'm into collecting coins and not struggling to make money off of them. I mean, are you going to keep resubmitting and dropping your minimum grade until it settles on something? Why not just take whatever grade they decide and be done with it?

 

Here’s an example pictured below, a crown of Victoria that is graded MS63 by NGC. PCGS won’t cross it at MS63. And of course, they won’t say what grade they think it is. In this case because my target grade is MS62 and the value difference between MS62 and MS63 isn’t great, I’ll send it back with a grade of MS62 allowed. If that doesn’t work, I’ll sell it.

Generally, I’m very successful at crossing world coins from NGC to PCGS at the same grade. This is a rare failure. My success at crossing U.S. coins is not good.

Cal

 

I’m very familiar with all the PCGS submission categories and have used almost of them when deemed appropriate. Cross, regrade and reconsideration are quite different. And only cross can be used for a coin in a non-PCGS holder if submitted in that holder.

For initial submission, I always leave the min. grade box blank on initial submission. That way, they cannot give it a lower grade than the one it already has and could possibly give it a higher grade. I’ve submitted many coins for crossing and never had a boost in grade.

You might ask that if I might eventually accept a lower grade, why not put that grade in the min. grade box to start with? Two reasons:

1. Grading always has some subjectivity for coins that aren’t problem coins or fakes. And graders of a particular TPG likely think they’re the best graders. So, if given the opportunity, they might go ahead and assign a lower grade for a coin that is borderline between two grades in their opinion. But if the minimal acceptable grade is the current grade and to make the customer happy, they’ll cross it at the current grade. That’s my view, which would hard to prove or disprove except statistically with a huge number of carefully chosen submissions.

2. It can take some thought and research to decide what to do with a coin that doesn’t cross. Because my success rate is very high with world coins, it’s not worth the effort to decide in advance what to do with a coin that does not cross at the same grade.

Cal

 

A couple of frank comments. First I don’t think crown grades MS-63. It does not have the luster; it looks cloudy. I could see it not making MS-62.

Second, I have found NGC to be more conservative when they are grading British coins than U.S. coins. Therefore it does not surprise me that you get more same grade crossovers for British coins than for U.S. pieces.

My advice is to leave your foreign coins in the NGC holder because that holder has more influence in that market.

 

Just curious - why do folks crossover from NGC to PCGS? More accomodating slabs? Credibility wise both companies are pretty much similar.

 

+1

 

I like all my coins for a particular series to be in slabs of only one TPG. Partly, this is due to my foolish consistency. I also like competing in registries, and for PCGS at least, the coins can only be in PCGS holders.

Cal

 

For U.S. coins, PCGS has a better reputation than NGC graded pieces. They tend to sell for higher prices and are easier to sell. For foreign and ancient coins, NGC has the edge.

 

I am quite inconsistent in that regard. I buy the coins I like in PCGS and NGC holders, and never do crossovers.

 

You're trying to cross NGC world coins to PCGS?

 

As Doug (@GDJMSP) has pointed out many times, precision grading from photos is not possible. Changes in lighting, focus, resolution, color balance, etc. can make a coin look totally different. And then there’s postprocessing which can change it more. If folks use jpg images obtained from their phone or camera, it has already been postprocessed automatically by their device. And many folks will change the resolution or other properties of the jpg before posting.

Luster can be removed or greatly enhanced, toning spots can be made almost invisible or prominent, dings and scratches can be made dominant or disappeared by photo technique or postprocessing. OK, if a coin is well worn, has a hole or a big gouge or other major problem, that can be hard to hide except with devious postprocessing.

Because of the variability of photography, I seldom look at GTG posts. If I do look, its because I’m interested in the coin for reasons other than GTG.

Cal

 

I buy most of my coins at auction. Before I start a series, I study past results extensively and compare NGC and PCGS prices and populations. This usually decides whether I’m going with NGC or PCGS. However, some coins in an acceptable grade don’t become available at a reasonable price very often. So, I may buy a coin graded by the “off” TPG and then cross it. That’s better than waiting years in some cases to get the coin I want in the grade I want graded by the TPG I want.

For many world series, PCGS-graded coins sell for as much or more than NGC-graded coins.

Cal

 

I'm pretty sure, that if you have stated, that you want to cross only at the same grade, then if there is even slightest possibility, that it may not cross at the same grade, they won't crack the slab open.
Because what would happen, if they open the slab, and it is not suitable for the required grade? They cannot put it back in the old slab, they cannot assign the higher grade.
So, I'm almost sure, that they will open the slabs only if they are 100% sure that the coin is suitable for the grade (a bit like CAC with their stickers). Better safe than sorry!
And keep in mind, that they have to grade the coin via plastic. Its much easier to grade the "raw" coin.
Ironically, if you are not picky about the grade, and let them open the slab, you may actually get the same grade.

 

It doesn’t work the way you describe. If a coin is sent for crossing, it’s in a slab of a TPG other than the one you send it to. It will be graded in that slab. If the grade is determined to meet or exceed the grade in min. grade box on the form (if box is empty, it means current grade), only then will it be cracked-out. Then it will be put in a new slab with a label with the grade on it.

Cal

 

I have a coin I’d like to sell and for some reason recent sales have PCGS going for significantly more than NGC. My attempt to cross at the same grade failed so I’ve just set it aside. I hate the grading game so I try to minimize my participation.

 

Wow! I see the deltas with ANACS, SEGS, and others, but I always saw NGC at least being almost a the same level as PCGS.

 

NGC is often ahead of PCGS for foreign and especially ancient coins, but PCGS is well ahead of NGC for U.S. coins.