Certificates of Provenance

Most of my coins have no paperwork indicating where they came from or who owned them before me. Many of the Judaean coins that I sell and give away were purchased in bulk lots. I can be certain that they came from Israel at some point so I thought that it might be a good idea to begin some provenance documentation that I can pass on to future owners. The certificate that I designed has signature fields and lines for sale date etc. I’ve purchased quite a few coins from dealers in Israel who include a signed and sealed Israel Antiquities Authority document. I liked the seal on the Israeli documents so I created my own personal seal labeled "Ancient Coin Ministry."

 

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Lol, that would be funny if your real birth name was Deacon Ray!

Nice coins and effort, keep it up DR!

 

Sorry Amigo, I don't think so.
If you can do it then anyone can do it and soon it will be open slather. Albeit at a cost, PCGS do it well and are highly respected.

 

I like it, but I wonder about the seal. Does it not infer that you are representing the Ministry?

 

Isn't that the name Sallent and TIF came up with last month?
I don't recall the thread specifics but had something to do with creating an ancient coin religion. Of course it's all in good fun.

DR, it's a neat concept but it seems to me your opening a door to possible legal issues in the future.

 

@Bing I think @Deacon Ray is the "Ancient Coin Ministry". I like the certificate and see nothing wrong with it as it simply attests that this is a genuine coin.

 

Yes, you may be right, Bing. I'll keep working on it. LOL

 

Well put Smojo. I guess that's what I was hinting at with my response. I'm new to this forum although I've been a member since 2009 and this is my first attempt at being involved.

 

Thank you, Camden! I appreciate your advice! You're right though the ministry angle is probably a bit much.

 

Nice!

Where do you sell your coins, Deacon Ray? I'd definitely be interested!

Erin

 

Lets take ten 100% genuine ancient coins and place certificates with them that attest to their being genuine. If that opinion is issued by NGC or David Sear, many people will pay as much for the opinion as for the coin. If that opinion is by a seller of repute (lets say CNG) people will pay more than if the same coin were being offered by one of us even if both will refund if an error is made (remember, all the coins in question here are genuine without doubt by definition for the purpose of this exercise). If some of us were selling the coin, some others would suspect there must be something wrong with it or that person would not be letting it out of his grasp. I believe most of us tend to go hard on sellers who issue certificates and those who bill themselves as Numismatic Experts even if they are good at what they do. I believe you have done well to specify Provenance rather than Authenticity on the paper but I suspect that a good number who see it will not make the distinction. Who was it that said that a prophet gets no respect in his own land?

 

A pleasure to meet and talk with you DR.

 

LOL! Thank you, Erin! It's all just fun and games now. I haven't sold a single coin. I can't hang on to them long enough because I wind up giving them away. I do have a "keeper" collection for reference. I'm trying to get one of every coin in my David Hendin book. I'm making pretty good progress.

 

This kind of documentation will be very important in the future.

I did not receive coins from Israel and don't know what export permission you receive. If it has a number, a space to record that number would be nice. It would also be nice to record the weight. You should also consider space to allow them to be notarized by a third party.

As more countries like Germany adopt provenance requirements this will become a big deal. For Germany I believe you need to show coins were in collections for 20 years. So an old third party notarization might be a very big deal in terms of resale.

It might also be interesting to do these certificates as part of an envelope that holds the other documents.

 

If I could afford it, I'd have the same goal.

I totally admire what you do with them! If you ever upgrade your coins and start selling, hit me up.

Erin

 

Just a reminder... PCGS doesn't certify or authenticate ancient coins. NGC encapsulates them but doesn't guarantee them (of course they are unlikely to slab a fake, but it isn't guaranteed).

Looks good, DR. I think it will serve your intention .

 

Hi Ed,
I've been ordering a lot of coins from Israel. The government licensed dealers include with your coin, a certified copy of an Israel Antiquities Authority export document. The document includes weight, description, and photo image of the coin. It also has a nice Israel Antiquities Authority seal on it. I guess that's what inspired my "Provenance Document" layout.

The export approval from Israel can take several weeks so if you're planning at some time to place an order, don't hold your breath for delivery. LOL

 

Include the Israel Antiquities Authority export document with the coin if you sell it. If the coin is part of a group lot then include a copy of the export document for the lot (I know that is not as good but it is something). I have some of their export documents from coins from Israel and I keep them safe and will pass them on if I sell them.

 

I always like to get the flip insert or paper sleeve from the person that had the coin before me. The other side of this insert has the purchase date (1984). I'm putting that info on my on coins inserts now in case the next owner cares, as well "from the chrsmat71 collection".

 

I like your idea, its great for future generations. I don´t believe you are doing any harm, rather the opposite.
I kind of laughed at the "Ancient Coin Ministry" seal. I imagined someone receiving this a few years from now, trying to figure out what kind of Ministry it was.

Anyway, it sounds like some of the ministries in Harry Potter´s books.