Salonina As

OK guys, I'm back
It is this coin (11,66 gr):

https://www.deamoneta.com/auctions/view/474/288

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

11.66 grams??? That's underweight for a sestertius, even of Gallienus/Salonina, especially one 29 mm in diameter. The coin appears to be orichalcum and cannot be a copper As, which weigh 6-7 gm, typically, on Gallienus/Salonina issues.

It's closer in weight to a dupondius, but there are no known dupondii depicting Pudicita on issues of Salonina and it's far too large in diameter to be a dupondius, anyway.

The deity depicted IS Pudicitia, given the scepter and the veil, which she is drawing away from her face, as she does in this authentic Antoninianus of Salonina, RIC 24 sole reign:



I believe the coin illustrated in Julius Germanicus' original post started out as a Sestertius of Salonina, but was extensively reengraved to become a (fantasy?) issue depicting Pudicitia standing. I suspect it lost 5 to 7 grams in the process of reengraving.

 

Still waiting for response from David Sear but Curtis Clay thinks it is genuine

 

No need to wait if Curtis Clay ok'd it.

 

Wow!

 

It is a die match with the coin described by Curtis Clay in the 2005 Gemini Text and is, as it was made with Sestertius dies, according to Curtis Clay actually a Sestertius as well.
I think I still like mine better than the other specimen despite it´s light weight and the cleaning/tooling, because it is perfectly round and actually quite beautiful in hand

 

WOW! That appears to a be an intriguing find.

 

You could send it to a third party grader (NGC)—for laughs.

 

You may find it funny but I believe that is the best course of action for this coin. Mssrs Vagi and Murphy are considerably more capable of rendering a valuable opinion on the coin than is Mr. Clay working from a photo and memory even if he was the cataloger of the Gemini coin. I can not see any fragment in that coin that could expand to Pudicitia although the figure clearly is. The Gemini coin was listed as somewhat smoothed; perhaps both were more what we now would call tooled. If it were to be submitted, I would suggest that a note be enclosed pointing out the existence of the Gemini coin which does seem to share the dies.

While I do not agree at any level with the slabbing of ancient coins and many of the NGC standards and practices (especially abandoning traditional grading), I believe deriding the professionals employed there as "(NGC)—for laughs" clearly does is wholly inappropriate.

 

I have a lot of respect for David Vagi and Barry Murphy and actually think they are doing a valuable service to the community in weeding out fakes. I don't like having my coins in slabs but that can easily be undone if desired.

I was not really surprised to see the fine print on my David Sear certificates that there is no guarantee on the accuracy of his opinion, a lot like NGC. The business model for guaranteeing ancients does not work unless that party initially sold you the coin in the first place.

John

 

You're preaching to the choir, Doug! I agree with you. I'm an NGC lifer. The "for laughs" comment was sarcasm. I've submitted coins to NGC and had them returned unslabbed because they were tooled. I could have complained and contested NGC's opinion but I decided to respect their decision and "laugh" instead!

 

David Sear just wrote me and suggested that my coin might be either heavily tooled or a cast fake and offered to research it further if I send it in.

If it were a cast I would wonder what coin it should be made after, considering it is a double die match with the unique and only recently discovered Sestertius of that type which is less complete than my coin.

Also I wonder if any examples of the As with Pudicitia standing (RIC 51 / Sear 10689) are published anywhere or if those are as obscure as the Sestertius variant discussed here. Or is it really the same item and was described as an As in the older literature due to it´s low weight?

In any case, I must say a big thank you to Curtis Clay and David Sear for taking the time to send me their suggestions.
I do not have any other hobby where the authorities in the field are so accessible and helpful

 

@Julius Germanicus If I were in your shoes I would get my money back from the dealer. I am super paranoid about having fakes and this coin, with all the issues it has, would probably give me a heart attack if I decided to keep it.
Just my two nummi though.
I hope that this all works out for you.
Cheers

 

Good news: The coin just came back from David Sear and he has certified it as authentic, very fine, and the second known specimen
The final Sestertius type struck for Salonina, a year before the regular production of bronze coins at Rome came to an end.

 

Congrats on the thumbs up from Sear! That was quite a saga and I'm glad there was a happy ending to it.

 

A good end to the story, congrats !

Q

 

I was way off base on this one. From the photo the coin looked off. Glad it came out good in the end.

 

This is most certainly an example of a coin which will sell for much more accompanied by its certificate. There is nothing I see in the photo that would make me want the coin at any price. With the Sear certificate, there is nothing to suggest I would ever be able to afford it. Congratulations. I would enjoy seeing the certificate comments if you are willing to post them.

 

This has been an educational thread for me!

 

David Sear rocks!! ...

=> Julius-G, congrats on spending the certification-cash (money well spent)

I would also love to see the Sear certificate (I have 50 or 60 of 'em, but I never get tired of seeing those babies) ... he's my coin-hero!!