Dif't Number of denticles on obverse & reverse

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Dougmeister, Dec 16, 2016.

  1. Dougmeister

    Dougmeister Well-Known Member

    I was counting the denticles on an 1859 Indian Head cent (the main photo from Wikipedia... link here.

    The obverse has (unless I'm counting incorrectly) 125. I assumed the reverse had the same, but then I thought I'd better double-check. I counted 129.

    I was confused. I counted again. Same results.

    I counted a 1909-S. I got 136 obverse, 129 reverse.

    1) Am I losing my mind?
    2) If not, why a different number on the reverse than the obverse?
    3) If not, why would the number change over the years? I can understand minor design changes, but who really notices the number of denticles?!
    4) If they have changed, how many times have they changed?
     
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  3. gronnh20

    gronnh20 Well-Known Member

    Why did you decide to count the denticles?
     
  4. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title]

    Probably for the snithaonian seeing impaired project.
     
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  5. Dougmeister

    Dougmeister Well-Known Member

    Helping Seattlite86 with a project
     
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  6. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title]

    I should probably stop posting with my phone
     
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  7. gronnh20

    gronnh20 Well-Known Member

    I remember reading about that project. Very noble of y'all to do that.
     
  8. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    I've never counted denticles, but I've heard of counting reeds on coins that have them. In contrast to these findings, the number of reeds is pretty consistent over the years. In fact, on Morgan dollars, the number of reeds is one indicator of proof vs business strike.
     
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  9. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    In some cases, reed counts can aid in authentication. I have heard of some advanced numismatists counting denticals - I believe on seated coinage. On worn coins the denticles usually disappear before the reeding.

    As far as the project for the blind, I seriously doubt that any human could tell the number of denticles on a coin by touch.
     
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  10. Dougmeister

    Dougmeister Well-Known Member

    @Insider, I agree that it would not be useful for identification of denomination. It is simply another metric that some people (visually-impaired or not) might find interesting, that's all.
     
  11. Hommer

    Hommer Curator of Semi Precious Coinage

    I suspect that the design itself may have a lot to do with the numbers. Not aesthetics but type of material and amount needed in that area to achieve a full strike. Sometimes a slight change can render big results not only to the coins aesthetics, but also the life of the dies.
    I haven't counted them, and am guessing here, but there may be a difference in the numbers for copper nickle v.s. bronze, for that reason.
     
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  12. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    IMO, the denticals, beads, and pretty little things found on/next to/near a coin's rim have nothing to do with the life of the dies. The rim helps protect the design and and the embellishments are only placed there for aesthetics.

    Of course the circumference of the coin determines how many of these "artistic things" will fit. Also, as the OP has found, there are differences. I'll bet some advanced specialist collector or perhaps a TPGS professional authenticator has studied this.:bookworm:
     
  13. Hommer

    Hommer Curator of Semi Precious Coinage

    They are placed there for aesthetics, but there has to be enough material in that area to support them. I know there have been design changes to original designs because a full strike couldn't be achieved where the obverse and reverse designs overlapped and required more material in one spot. To achieve a full strike, the pressure of the strike had to be raised which in turn caused premature failure of the dies.

    Edit to add: a good example is the 1921/22 Peace Dollar.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2016
  14. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    I count the angels that can dance on the head of a pin.
     
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  15. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    Or camels passing through the eye of a needle.........You guys are really that anal? I'm happy if I can count ten toes..........yup, they're still there.
     
  16. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Have another drinkie-winkie...
     
  17. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    It's really what is sometimes needed. Winston Churchill would most heartedly agree........if he were still here with us.
     
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