What exactly is "proof-like"?

VERY useful information. Thank you.

 

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Those coins in those links you provided are not business strike examples. They are SMS, specially made coins made for the US Mint sets. Business strike coins are made for circulation and require less coining pressure, no special handling or coin blanks etc. The differences can be found in the US Mint glossary, you don't have to take my word for it. Just because these so called top grading companies discontinued calling mint set coins SP or SMS doesn't mean those mint set coins are not SP, SMS.

Just a heads-up! Those examples are not circulating business strikes. They are SP, SMS coins from the US Mint sets. How the US Mint makes those coins does not get changed with how some grading companies have mislabeled them incorrectly. Check into the US Mint glossary for the differences between the US mint set SMS or SP coins and business strikes made for circulation. Melded verses well define hair banks of Jefferson is the difference. I could write a couple pages on this over-sight. Coin collectors want to find coins that match the quality of the coins made before 2005 and that's through roll hunting, not from mint sets like in the old days. Entire sets of coins from mint sets from 2005 to present can be bought on ebay for practically nothing. Why would anyone pay .50 for a US Mint Set coin when they made millions of those perfected coins?
Btw, it was a few concerned collectors who sent letters, emails to the US Mint that ultimate ended the production of those satin finish mint set coins, me included.
Cheers, Leo

 

Dis

Excellent pictured examples. Thanks

 

This is the definition that the RCM (and later, Charlton in their annual guides) has for "prooflike: "Quality of choice coins obviously superior to circulation strikes, but whose surfaces are not as bright as those of other specimen coins. Struck using selected dies and planchets and on slower moving presses than for circulation coins". Canadian collectors rue the day that the RCM, and then the TPG's, started using that designation. Clouding everything, after the "proof-like" dies were done striking P-L's, they were used for circulation strikes. I don't collect "bright and shiny", only Vicky large cent varieties, but have many friends who still argue about P-L coins.

 

Yes, in fact many older proofs, before about the 1970s often do not have frosted devices. They were not meant to really, the entire coin was prepared to have mirrored surfaces, that's why coins with CAM or UCAM designations before then often command a premium.

 

PCGS would disagree with many of you on what a Prooflike coin is from a Canada Mint set and what a Business Strike is from a Mint Bag or bank roll. PCGS will grade a Canada coin taken from a Prooflike set as PL, but they grade Business Strikes as MS. The reason is because they also grade Morgan Dollars and other similar coins that are Business Strikes that can have Proof-like qualities. To give you an example, let us suppose you have two coins that grade 66 out of 70. Both have mirror fields or proof-like qualities. The first one comes from a Canada Mint Set, the other comes from a Mint Bag and was made for circulation. The experts at PCGS can tell the difference between these two coins and will identify them differently. The coin from the Canada Mint set is going to get the grade PL66 and if it has a cameo surfaces, then it could be grade PL66CAM or even PL66DCAM. However, the Business Strike coin that was minted for circulation that also has a mirror surface is going to have bag marks on it because it was put together with other coins of its denomination that were all made to be spent as money and not collected. That coin is going to get the grade MS66 PL. And if it also has some cameo surfaces, then it might get the grade MS66 DMPL. You see this grade more often on Morgan Dollars than any other coins. PCGS knows something you guys are not realizing. The coin made for the Canada Mint Set or PL set (Not SP or Proof), was minted differently than the one made for circulation. The PL set coins are made one by one and removed to a tray so they have very limited contact with each other. The coins made for circulation are dropped into a bag or metal bucket with other coins causing bag marks. Some Business Strikes can have Mirror surfaces because they are first strikes made from new dies or one new die if PL only on one side. So, you see the coins found in Canada PL sets are not minted the same as those found in Mint Bags and bank rolls, so they are not the same. So, to correctly answer your question that you posted in 2021, and it is now 2024, the coins found in Canada Prooflike Sets are not Business Strikes made for circulation, but are special strikes more similar to Proof coins, but not as well minted as Proof strikes.

 

What's to stop an enterprising guy from adding bagmarks prior to submission thereby scoring the coveted MS grade?

 

The edge?