PCGS Grading - Details

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Soiled, Dec 6, 2016.

  1. Soiled

    Soiled Everyone has coin Avatars. I chose space.

    I recently had a number of coins graded by PCGS. Purchased them from Great Southern Coin - One of the few vendors I purchase raw coins from. They advertised these coins as AU to BU etc. I know they don't guarantee grades and I don't really care what these coins grade at as long as they grade. Detail coins they'll usually denote in the description. None of the coins I bought were advertised as detailed or damaged coins.

    PCGS found 4 of the to be detailed due to cleaning/irregular color. Two of these coins don't look detail grading to me. What say you all?

    http://www.pcgs.com/cert/82496472
    http://www.pcgs.com/cert/82496474
    http://www.pcgs.com/cert/82496475
    http://www.pcgs.com/cert/82496480

    The peace dollar and indian head penny look fine. The other two could go either way. Will they reconsider these grades? If not, I'm considering returning the Indian head penny and peace to great southern. Opinions and Advice appreciated. Thx much.
     
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  3. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    IMO, the Trade dollar and Indian cent should be detailed. Other two cannot tell from photos.
     
  4. BooksB4Coins

    BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

    I mean absolutely no harm in saying this, but I'm guessing you're not familiar with the facts behind GSC. This has been discussed many, many times on this board (and others), but buying raw from them with the plan to submit isn't a very wise idea. There are very good reasons why they just happen to have many otherwise higher end/dollar coins that are raw. There is also a very good reason why they've such a lenient return policy, and it's not their dedication to customer service. Their true talent is in imaging coins in flattering ways that hide the facts from most buyers, and this too is for a very good reason.

    I'm truly sorry this has happened to you, but in the future, please consider taking a different route.
     
    JonLen, Tater, Jwt708 and 1 other person like this.
  5. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    That trade dollar is hairlined to death. Bad, bad cleaning. The indian cent looks unnatural. Probably dipped out to be red. The gold looks a little funky. The Peace dollar, however is quite pretty and has a stronger central strike than most. Should be MS IMO.
     
  6. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Well-Known Member

    Great Southern Coin say no more other than buyer beware!
     
  7. Soiled

    Soiled Everyone has coin Avatars. I chose space.

    Will pcgs reconsider the peace?
     
  8. jwitten

    jwitten Well-Known Member

    I've gotten some great coins from them. The only one that does not look cleaned to me is the Gold Indian. It looks like it could go either way. The others are pretty obvious to me. Do you have the original auction links to look at? Did you get any from them that ended up grading out ok?
     
  9. Soiled

    Soiled Everyone has coin Avatars. I chose space.

    75 % of what I purchased graded. I'll probably keep the gold and return the others. I'll link the eBay listings for all and the subsequent grade.
     
  10. jwitten

    jwitten Well-Known Member

    How did the others do grade wise? 75% is a decent straight grade rate I would think. I would have thought the gold would have straight graded too judging by that picture.
     
  11. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    Frankly, I'd be hesitant to buy any raw coin off eBay. There are numerous threads about GSC that are most informative.
     
    britannia40 and Paddy54 like this.
  12. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    If you crack it out and send it in again it will get a fresh look, wouldn't be the first coin to get a straight grade after a cleaned label if it did but there are no assurances you won't get the same result.
     
  13. Evan8

    Evan8 A Little Off Center

    I have to agree the first three all looked cleaned. The Indian is hard to tell from the pic about color.

    Search great southern on this forum, and read all about them.
     
  14. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    I can't say I'm in complete agreement. It's always wise to question a century-old coin which is in the very earliest stages of toning, like the Peace Dollar, especially when the surface finish is so monolithic. They also have the advantage of having been able to inspect the reeding; if there's color in the recesses of the reeding (a dip sufficient for the faces won't always remove color from the reeding), the conclusion would be obvious. I'm "suspicious" of that color at the least.

    The Cent is even less equivocal to me, with the notable darker mottling on both faces and areas of what I'd refer to as "greater and lesser saturation." If those were the only images I had to work with, I'd call it, um, "unquestionably Questionable." :)

    Typical GSC fare, in other words.
     
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  15. Soiled

    Soiled Everyone has coin Avatars. I chose space.

    thx for the responses. Here are the corresponding ebay listings for the above:

    Trade - http://www.ebay.com/itm/291916859887?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

    Indian Penny - http://www.ebay.com/itm/371767828009?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

    Peace '21 - http://www.ebay.com/itm/371765841971?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

    1911 Gold Indian - http://www.ebay.com/itm/371756424183?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

    I'm going to return the top 3 and keep the gold since it's 'gold'. The price I paid was no bargain but not horrible.
     
  16. Soiled

    Soiled Everyone has coin Avatars. I chose space.

  17. RonSanderson

    RonSanderson Supporter! Supporter

    I am confused. Aren't the lines on the trade dollar just die scratches? They stop at the edges of the devices and don't go over them.
     
  18. jester3681

    jester3681 Exonumia Enthusiast

    I have returned coins to GSC and had them refund the grading fees as well. Depends on how the pieces were listed. I'm not really informed on any of the four you got dinged on, but I agree the Seated is hairlined to death. And the Indian Cent is just off - not sure if it was an old dip or chemical change but the color is a bit too orange.
     
  19. jwitten

    jwitten Well-Known Member

    I have mixed thoughts on this. If you want graded coins, buy graded coins. Do not buy raw coins from someone giving their opinion, then keep the 75% that graded ok, and make him take back the 25% that did not. If you decided to get them graded, you probably agreed with his opinion.
     
    MMiller750, Rheingold and Kirkuleez like this.
  20. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    I have to agree. The trade dollar certainly should have been an instant return from how the picture depicted it. But while I am not a fan of their practices I also have a problem with the idea of returning something 6 weeks later because it didn't grade as you wanted it to unless a deal was in place prior to that. The decision should be made prior to grading, had one come back as fake that would be a different story
     
  21. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    The dollars and the gold piece are pretty obviously cleaned (though I did have to look at the maximum size TrueView to see the cleaning hairlines on the Peace and the gold). I don't like the area under the 9 in the date on the IHC and I'm not a fan of the reverse at all. I think these are all correct.
     
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