Under-graded?

You guys think this coin is under-graded at F15?

My previous avatar:

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Seems to be quite a price jump to 20. This dealer is sharp and I would think he would have sent it in for a regrade if he thought 15 was too low. Then again, he might already have.

 

maybe a VF 20

 

The obverse looks VF-20 and the reverse looks F-12. I'm thinking they net graded it to F-15 due to the differences.

 

Maybe @Log Potato will chime in. He collects the series.

Chris

 

15 sounds about right for that one. A 20 wouldn't shock me but my guess is they are saying the reverse was just to weak for the VF price jump.

 

This is one that the older collectors of the series would probably call F18 (yes that was thing 30 years ago). I agree with @jtlee321 above. The reverse is holding it back from a 20 holder. But I can understand where this dealer is coming from. I've seen coins like this in 20 holders.

 

It's correctly graded. Solid F-15. There is not enough of the headband nor feather detail for this to be VF.

 

David Khan resubmits all the time and send most everything to CAC. So if you see stuff like this for sale, it's likely already been through his process.

 

I agree that this doesn't have what it takes to be a 20. It is accurately graded.

It is also an attractive, original, and problem free example. This is the type of look that you should be searching for.

 

Looks well graded to me. Rev. is borderline 20.

 

Personally feel that it should never be cracked out of the F-15 holder. You got the best grade that this coin should have.

 

Dave Kahn is a very smart and fair-minded dealer. He sees value in CAC but is sensible enough not to waste money on S/I and CAC's fee for a $90 coin. Same for PCGS grading, which even more expensive.

I highly doubt this coin has visited CAC or been regraded. FWIW, its holder is at least several years old (judging by the reverse label and hologram).
Lance.

 

Yes, this coin has a nice look and as others have said the obverse looks better than most other F15's. I posted cause I wanted to get opinions from those that are more knowledgeable since I'm trying to learn. I also posted it for all to see cause I'm not going to bid on this one. I have my sights on a few other pieces and unfortunately my budget is finite.

Thank you all for the excellent responses.

 

The answer to your question is no, it's not undergraded.

 

Agreed........

 

I need all of LIBERTY visible to offer one of these VF. Heck, I'd need more of the shield on the reverse to offer that face VF, as well.

 

I hate the idea that somehow Liberty is the end all be all of the grades

 

It isn't, necessarily, but it is a key area. Generally speaking, if the Liberty is full, the rest of the coin will probably be VF-ish (you have to verify the reverse as well, of course). Low grade circulated coins are graded by the wear on the high points - the headband just happens to be the more important (and more immediately obvious) high point on the obverse. It's really easy to count the letters of Liberty and get a really quick, pretty good estimate of the grade.

For many circulated grades on many series, there is a key point or detail that must be present for it to achieve a certain grade: for VF Barbers (all series), the Liberty must be full. Seated Liberty coins are often dependent on the Liberty on the shield. And so on.

You start to run into problems with this approach when strike is taken into consideration. I generally argue that strike is a lesser concern on VF and below coins (at that point, the distinction between strike and wear becomes difficult. It is all manifest as missing detail - and that is a negative no matter the cause). However, specialists in a series will know which dates are usually poorly struck, and may be more lenient with them. Key dates will also often get a slide. I disagree with both of these approaches, but be aware that the TPGs practice market grading and will do this.

 

You have to think that a liberty headband is incuse lettering on a high point surrounded by high devices relative to the depth of the incused lettering so if wear has gotten to the point that liberty letters are starting to fade a coin has been in circulation for quite some time.