An 1839 Gobrecht Dollar

I purchased this piece at the Tampa Coin show which was held this week. The attendance had to be disappointing for the promoters, but it was a very enjoyable show.

I have had an 1836 Gobrecht Dollar for a number of years. These are the coins which were issued starting in 1836 which got the U.S. mint into issuing dollar coins after a hiatus of over 30 years. This is one of the original pieces with the #1 die rotation.



Gobrecht revisited his design in 1838 and 1839. This time there were 13 stars on the obverse, as it would be when silver dollars were issued on a regular basis in 1840. The eagle was still flying, but this time he is in a plain field.



These pieces were issued in 1839 and then restuck and issued again, for collectors in the late 1850s and early '60s. The way to tell is via the die rotation. There are differing theories on this. This piece is die alignment III, which was supposed to be from the 1850s and '60s. The coin was stuck with a "coin turn" which means you rotate it on the horizontal axis to go from obverse to reverse. The "medal turn" works with the vertical axis.

There are not a lot of these coins around. It's a good deal rarer than the 1836 dollar, but it's not as popular. Therefore the price is probably a bit lower for the same grade.

 

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Beautiful coins. You're very lucky to have them.

 

If I Had the chance to spend an afternoon at one CT members coin desk.... It would be yours. Those are spectacular Gobrecht pieces.

 

Indeed, wouldn't that be a pleasure most supreme.

I've loved and admired those classic dollars since I was knee high to a grasshopper, John. Thanks for posting yours. I don't think I'll be gettin' any of 'em soon as the missus and me likes to eat. (devil)

 

Drool..... Nothing else to say....

 

@johnmilton I guess I never noticed this before, but the eagle is exactly the same as on the Flying Eagle cents. What's the connection? Longacre is credited as the designed on the FE.

 

It is very similar. There were a few eagles that appeared on the cent patterns that Longacre designed in the 1850s. That one, borrowed from the Gobrecht dollars, which were restruck during this period, was the design that made it to general circulation. Unfortunately the metal flow was not right. Many prices showed weakness on the eagle’s and, more often, the tail. I passed on a an MS-63 graded piece at this week’s Tampa show because the tail feathers were poorly struck.

 

@johnmilton your collection, and your writeups, never cease to amaze me. Thank you for sharing these pieces with us. Absolutely spectacular specimens.

Randy, you expressed my desire perfectly. Hey, I'll split admission with you!

 

one of my all time favorite patterns

 

Mine also. Never actually got to see one.
BTW: Can you actually believe that such a beautiful example survived all this time? Just incredible.

 

The mintage of over 300 pieces in 1838-9, which reached circulation, it’s one of those grey area patterns. The 1836 dollar, with the stars on the reverse, had a mintage of over 1,600 pieces.

 

The 1839 dollar was probably sold or traded to a collector in the late 1850s or 1860s who carefully preserved it. The Philadelphia Mint was restriking these coins and using them for trade bait with collectors to get pieces for the mint's collection. The mint collection is now in the Smithsonian as part of the National Collection.

This is not a highly regarded coin among some collectors because its restrike status. Yet, looking at the literature, it seems to be far scarcer than the Alignment IV pieces, which are believed to have been made to circulate.

Maybe to tomorrow, I'll explain the alignments. It is gets complicated, and no one knows for sure when each of the coins were struck.

 

@johnmilton It was only tbe 1839 that was restruck, correct? And that subsequent restrike was a product of the US mint wasn’t it?

 

Thanks. At a glance it seems like Longacre just took Gobrecht's galvano and reduced it to cent size.

 

The thinking is the 1839 dollars with the alignment IV (medal turn, eagle flying horizontally) were issued for circulation, although there were very few of them. The piece I posted, an alignment III piece, is said to be an 1850s strike. Going by the reported survivors, it’s rarer, but less popular.

 

No, the eagle on the Flying Eagle cent is a close match, but it’s not perfect. I used to think that it was a perfect match.

 

Here is a quick lesson on the four die rotation alignments that have been laid out for the Gobrecht Dollars. Learned this in words in hard. Looking at it with pictures of coins in slabs makes it a bit easier.

Here are two terms that you need to understand.

Coin Rotation - The obverse and the reverse are lined up such that when the coin is turned head over heals or on the horizonal axis the obverse and reverse are lined up properly. Nearly all U.S. coins are made this way.

Medal Rotation - The obverse and the reverse are lined up so then when the piece is tuned on the vertical axis that the two sides are lined up properly. Most medals are struck this way.

Die Alignment I



Coin rotation. The reverse die has the eagle flying "onward and upward" when the is flipped "head over heals." The experts agree that all of the 1,000, 1836 dated Gobrecht Dollars that were made this way.

Die Alignment II



Medal Rotation. When the piece is flipped on its vertical axis, the eagle on the reverse is flying "onward and upward." It was once believed that all of the 600, 1836 Gobrecht Dollars that were issued in 1837 were made this way. Now there is a debate because the coin seems to be too scarce to have a mintage of 600.

Alignment III



Coin Rotation. When the coin is flipped on its horizonal axis the obverse and reverse are in the proper perspective. The eagle is flying horizontally. It was once believed that all of the coins which had eagles flying horizontally were restrikes. Now there are debates about that.

Alignment IV



Medal Rotation. When the coin is flipped on its vertical axis, the obverse and reverse line up properly. The eagle is flying horizontally.

I won't get into the debates about how to decide if a coin is an original or a restrike. The only one in which there is no debate is the 1836 original issue coins which were alignment #1. The rest are under discussion.

 

Any known misaligned dies? That would just be MADdening!!!

 

There are instances of where the dies rotated to other positions while some of these coins were struck. Therefore there are "tweeners." One theory is that the dies rotated while the mint was striking the 600 pieces in 1837. This makes it even harder to guess when some pieces were struck.

At any rate the former claim that original coins all of the eagle flying "onward an upward" is now not accepted.

 

John, very confused with your pictures here. Please help me understand a little better.

Die Alignment I & II both have the same PCGS serial numbers on the obverse. Yet the reverse is showing different orientation of the coin/medal holder. In DA I the dealer stickers are below the eagle. On DA II the dealer stickers are above the eagle.

Are the obverses of both DA I and DA II supposed to be the same?

The exact same confusion exists for DA III and DA IV. The NGC serial number on the obverse is the same on both DA III and DA IV. The reverses are displaying the dealer stickers below the eagle and above the eagle.

If you can, please help me with this.