Sorry, I didn't realize this thread had 5 additional pages of comments. I wrote the previous question before I'd discovered that someone had already discussed the possibility of re-silvering.
I like the ongoing thread very much. The example impressively demonstrates that especially under thick deposits, the metal can be perfectly conserved. The metal salts were growing "outside" the coin and have been eventually sealing it instead of penetrating the metal, what could be regarded as corrosion. Frequently, it can happen that under these thick deposits, perfectly smooth surfaces become apparent after chemical cleaning whereas the surface in the areas, that were covered only flimsily, becomes rough.
I've been following the thread whilst trying to avoid the negativity, so forgive me if this has already been asked. How long did it take to clean the coin up? If this gives away too much of the process, then by all means leave it unanswered. I'm simply curious; particularly since the methods that are always given for cleaning a bunch of ancients straight out of the ground is usually soaking for days/weeks on end. (Looks gorgeous by the way)
Nice! Now that's amazing to me. Here's one before and after I cleaned. Nothing compared to your coin, but I am happy with it.
Nice job @old49er. I started off by buying uncleaned lots. It is a fairly large topic. It all depends on where the coins have been for the last 1700 years. Stuff that is found in desert type areas probably needs no more than a brush and retaining the sandy patina is preferred. Other stuff needs soaking, preferably in distilled water (some use olive oil) and can take months. That dirt has been there around 1700 years and it isn't going to give up easily. Hoard coins are another matter. I know that YOC had the coin in soak for a couple of weeks. My method of removing the hard green mineral (takes around 40 minutes start to finish) does not work well on hoard coins.
Hello Pishpash, It is a common misconception that one can clean coins with olive oil. Especially less cleaned coins are indeed frequently lubricated with oil, shoe polish, etc.. The effect of the lubricants is that the dirt is becoming permanently wet and hence darker, which makes the surface to appear homogeneous in color.
Hello Marc I don't like olive oil, I sometimes use it in conjunction with lemon juice on silver coins, but for bronze, yuk. You just end up with a gunky coin.
One final thought from me on the truly WONDERFUL 'before and after' results that YOC was able to achieve. Long ago I realized I would never stop learning and old 'truths' would be eventually exposed as misconceptions so I welcomed Insiders comments, although not necessarily the manner in which he expressed them. I also 'doubted' the silvering could remain after a treatment that so effectively removed all the unwanted surface materials....and I'm absolutely thrilled to discover it actually can be done.
Someone posted this: "Pish, you have no need or requirement to tell anyone the coin was cleaned. Every coin posted here and every coin sold at any auction has been cleaned. The sellers know it, the auction knows it." I agree. "If a coin had been restored, ie tooled or had holes filled or was plated, then it should be disclosed," I agree. "...but yours has clearly had none of these things done, so you have no duty to tell anyone. IMO" Only the restorer knows. Since he claims no alterations were made (true or not) you are "off-the-hook" and the coin will sell as is in its present condition. No one will be the wiser. If I had the talent to "fix" coins such as yours, I should have a garage full of Porsche's and Ferrari's. Many collectors of US coins use the services of another well known "restorer" to improve the appearance of their coins. As I posted before, the results on your piece are "genius." Marc Aceton wrote: "I like the ongoing thread very much. Me too. The example impressively demonstrates that especially under thick deposits, the metal can be perfectly conserved (actually not perfectly as in "original"). The metal salts were growing "outside" the coin and have been eventually sealing it instead of penetrating the metal, what could be regarded as corrosion. What I am tending to believe IN SOME CASES as a result of this thread and input from @Kentucky, it MAY be possible to have corrosion deposits on the surface of ANCIENT silvered coins that do not harm the silver wash of the underlying surface. I can state with 100% certainty that this is not the case for high grade silver coins on which the surface is ALWAYS harmed to some degree. The undeniable fact is that the surface of Pish's coin HAS BEEN AFFECTED as it shows areas where the formerly present corrosion products have "eaten" its surface. FACT: There is NO WAY ON EARTH that that a corrosion crater into the surface of a coin can have the same "original" silver color or surface as an unaffected area. "Frequently, it can happen that under these thick deposits, perfectly smooth surfaces become apparent after chemical cleaning whereas the surface in the areas, that were covered only flimsily, becomes rough." NOTE: My original post questioned the fact that a piece with that amount of corrosion products could be "fixed" at all! Obviously, it has been. Next, I questioned how what looked like the completely corroded away design of the figure on the reverse was not affected without chemical (OK) and mechanical (NOT OK if the design was "improved") action. Now, we all know that "improving" the surface and design of our ancient coins is now and has been practiced forever. So much so that the coins are "market acceptable." Some members here "restore" coins. The results they post (Are their other results we don't get to see? ) are fantastic. My calling in life is to detect counterfeit and altered coins and to conserve genuine specimens. I don't "cherry-coat" the determinations I make. I am also not infallible. However, I have little regard for anyone who can look at a particular coin with an OBVIOUS defect and fail to see it. The sky is not red, get it? I also have very little regard for folks who take their ball and go home crying rather than continuing a discussion no mater how sarcastic or caustic it becomes. In my experience, it means they are either backed into a wall and do not wish to admit they were not as correct as they thought OR they may be hiding something. Happily, I've been backed into that wall on two occasions since joining. IMO, This is not one of them. I say happily because that's one way to learn new thing or correct misconceptions. Pishpash wrote: " I know that YOC had the coin in soak for a couple of weeks." Now, we are learning some things. I've never soaked a coin in distilled water as time is a factor. Deionized water is used by professionals. "My method of removing the hard green mineral (takes around 40 minutes start to finish)..." And I wish that you at least are not bound to secrecy and can share more info on your methods. That is why I requested the use of your before photos BOTH to try and learn what works for that restorer and to learn if the coin was altered in a "more or less "unacceptable" way in spite of the great results. Oh, and to prove that the coin WAS CORRODED. It is your choice to make as the person doing the "job" has written his hope that you keep it to yourself. How sad. Marc Aceton wrote: It is a common misconception that one can clean coins with olive oil. Especially less cleaned coins are indeed frequently lubricated with oil, shoe polish, etc.. The effect of the lubricants is that the dirt is becoming permanently wet and hence darker, which makes the surface to appear homogeneous in color." IMO, olive oil is a good pre-conservation treatment.
Let's get somethings clear, I need to verify,I should never, I tend, I believe, I like to consider, I shall not name......... What exactly are you getting clear ? To much I, I, I, I,........and not enough fact. Show us some facts because as far as I am concerned all you have that I can see is supposition. Debate relies upon facts.
Wow Insider, you must love hearing yourself talk, eh? It sounds like most people have already hit the ignore button ... and the rest of us are merely laughing at your lack of social skills (if I was you, I would have taken my coin-ball and gone home a long time ago) ... but whatever, you seem to get off on being unlikable (everybody collects coins differently) Sure, I dislike a few dudes on this site, but you may be the first that actually warrants me trying-out the ol' ignore-button! (congrats!! => you're number 1)
@Insider I have a pretty stressful job and this is my hobby. There comes a point in a discussion when it's no longer worth it to me. I save my arguments for work, where my opinion is important. This place should be fun and while I don't mind a debate if we can't be civil then I'm out.
I, I, I, I That is the only thing I, I, I, I, (Goes like the Mexican song ) post about. I. I, I, I, don't have any understanding of what your experience or understanding of English is as I have learned that many members of CT do not live in America. Read my posts again about corrosion, and alterations. I have no idea how any of it can be misunderstood. Furthermore, much of the time I post I am accused of being pompous, a know-it-all, a troll, and other things for being so sure what I post is factual and true. That's why I have put more of "I believe", "IMHO" NOT, and woosified opinions so as not to offend all those who it seems know so much more than I. Now, why don't you and your cordial friends here gather up some real thoughts and POST ABOUT THE ORIGINAL TOPIC. I
Deionized water and distilled water are in essence the same thing, pure H2O with nothing (at least nothing ionic...i.e. mineral) dissolved in it. BTW, one second after you put a coin into distilled/deionized water, it is no longer pure water.
Back to topic , incredible change, with. Minimal damage, if any at all. Have you thought about going. pro. ? ( doing restoration as a business ? ) (original poster )
