Why are problem free classic head cents so dang expensive?!

I've been stalking eBay for months looking for a relatively problem free classic head large cent for my type set. Anything that isn't completely corroded or worn nearly smooth is just stupid expensive. I wanted one where you could still see some detail in the hair and didn't look like it had been buried for 200 years. I know copper doesn't age as well and they only made them for a few years, but, dang, are they that rare?

I finally pulled the trigger on this one. I paid more than I wanted to (just under $500), but I'd like to get y'all's thoughts on it. How much of the rim weirdness and side weakness is the strike? Also, the seller takes returns if you see anything amiss.

Thanks!

1810 Cent Obverse by mckinneym posted Aug 26, 2024 at 2:24 PM

1810 Cent Reverse by mckinneym posted Aug 26, 2024 at 2:30 PM

 

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For years experts said that the copper in them was softer than the previous issues. That is nonsense. The answer is the mintages. There were 16 million Draped Bust large cents. There were just under 4.8 million Classic Heads.

These coins were issued when there were almost no coin collectors in the U.S. Therefore the coins that survived in good shape were either in foreign collections or by luck.

 

As @johnmilton said, there are just fewer of them that survived and even fewer in nice condition.

Your coin is a struck a bit off-center on both obverse and reverse and overall is weakly struck (typical) but particularly so on the reverse through TED STATES. Could be due to dies that were not parallel when set up or due to off-center striking. The rim issue below the date has some aspects of a cud but is more likely to be an artifact of the off-center striking. I don't believe it is PMD.

Now to the quality of those survivors. Like you, I searched for quite some time to find an acceptable example for my type set. Almost every one I saw was dark, porous, and weakly struck. I finally found an 1812 that was acceptable and paid a pretty penny for it in 2019. Large Date, S-288. Photo below.

Excerpted from Q. David Bowers Guidebook of Half Cents and Large Cents:

"Generally, the earlier dates are seen on light brown planchets and are somewhat casually struck, with many design details weak or absent. Cents of 1814 are often dark and porous...Lightness of striking is the rule for the vast majority of cents of this type...All planchets for these cents were imported from Boulton & Watt of Birmingham, England, a firm well known for the excellent quality of its products...Craig Sholley suggests that either the Mint or Boulton & Watt may have begun adding a lubricant to the planchet, or that the British supplier may have begun utilizing a different source, or different ore base, that contained impurities. Whatever the reason, extant coins for later Classic Head years tend to be dark, porous, or both.

 

When they were minted they never minted a large number of them. Yours is slightly off-center. Look in your Red Book for the mintage for this year.

 

Here is the piece in my type set. It's not the best one I've ever owned. I sold one that didn't grade at PCGS or NGC that was better. It was during my foolish "chase the registry" days. I learned that's like Fido when he's chasing his tail.



Here's "the one that got away." This came back to me in body bag from the grading services. Shame on them, and me for letting them lead me.

 

That is an amazing coin!

 

That is one of the sharpest one's I've ever seen...

What was wrong with the second one?

 

The TPG graders said it had "artificial toning." I'd say they had "artificial intelligence" when they were grading, and that was before AI was known or cool.

I'll bet you that coin is now in an AU-58 holder. it won't be the first time that the choice early copper coins I had came back in body bags to me but ended up in holders when somebody else sent them in.

 

You and I agree that was utter nonsense. Both of the coins you showed are lovely.

 

Thanks for this info. I paid about $475 for it. I suspect it's not an amazing deal, but was it at least a fair deal?

 

H'mm. I usually don't like to address these kinds of questions because ....

Anyway, let me say this. I would give your coin a grade of around VG-10. Greysheet lists the 1810 in VG-8 at 220 and in F-12 at $440. The CDN retail CPG lists VG-8 at $285 and F-12 at $570. Now, those prices are for straight-graded coins in holders and are basically averages of numerous sales.

Your coin is raw, has some minor edge dings and some porosity. Would it straight-grade? Maybe.

My judgement is that at $475 for a slabbed, straight-graded coin in VG-10, that would be at the high end of a "fair deal". However, I would not have paid $475 for this coin raw. I just don't like having to take on all the risk of a formal grading event.

But if you are happy with the coin for your type set, that's what matters. And the off-center strike has some charm to it. If the "thing" below the date is actually a cud, then that's another plus.

Another thing to think about is that you spent a lot of time scouring EBay for a coin acceptable to your eye and pocket. This one satisfied those criteria.

 

What are the odds you look that good in your 180s or 190s?

 

Not great, but when your made of copper, it can be done.



If it's made of silver or gold, the odds get better because those metals are less reactive to the elements.





The point is, the more money you pay for an early U.S. coin, the fussier you get, unless it's a rare of popular date or variety. In that case, sometimes you have to take what you can get. I usually try to avoid that situation, but if I want a 1799 cent ...

 

Thank you for your very thoughtful reply. I have no intention of getting it graded or selling the collection. Within reason, I do not mind spending money on a coin I like, I just dislike getting totally hosed. And I completely agree with your last sentence...for whatever reason, after looking at hundreds of coins that were either clearly overpriced or had little appeal to me, this coin caught my eye and was within the budget I set for myself. So, I'll count it as one of those 'it was worth that much to me' moments.

 

I can assure you, you did not get "hosed". One can however argue you did pay about $80-$100 above what I would have paid, and I have been collecting early coppers for a long time. I do not collect slabbed coppers.

The surfaces are a bit rough, but that, and much worse, is the norm, not the exception. You have plenty of detail as well. Grade is about F15-VF20, but an EAC person would net grade around VG10 to F12. My very old (2011) copper prices guide indicates a price of around $300-$400 for an 1810 in that grade and surface condition.

By the way, there are 5 different die pairings (varieties) for 1810. These are Sheldon die pairs S-281 to S-285. None are rare, with the exception of S-284 which can be considered scarce. S-281 is the overdate variety. In fact, 1810 is considered a rather "dull" date as far as Classic Heads is concerned.

I have these examples in my collection. Yours is much better. I paid about $185 for the top one about 10 years ago.

 

One other thing. Many of the blanks the mint received in those days were really poor.

 

The price paid is fine.

 

The historical record it littered with letters complaining about slow delivery, non delivery, and quality. If you dig, there is a lot of fascinating information about the planchets. For example (towards the bottom) talking about 1808-1814 at http://numismatics.org/digitallibrary/ark:/53695/nnan11280

 

I dunno - I would have snatched that top one up in a heartbeat! That's a nice coin!