Are these German State Bavarian Coins Proofs?

I recently acquired two German State coins, as shown below. They both appear to have a mirrored fields and a cartwheel luster. The devices also have a noticeable cameo. I looked up some proof examples via Google images and they have a strong cameo. However, the business strike examples don't seem to have a cameo. Is mine simply a proof-like version at best? Sorry for the poor photo quality.

Thanks in advance!


+ 1914 D Bavaria 5 Mark







+ 1911 D Bavaria 3 Mark

 

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from the looks of these I would guess no not proofs. wait for other opinions...

 

No it is not. Unc. Not proof.

 

Could it qualify as proof-like? The mirrored fields are much, much more prominent than what's shown in my photos. I'm thinking of sending these in to NGC (depending also on the coins' guesstimated grades), and I can try to do that reflection test to see if words can be read off the coin at X distance when the coin is perpendicular to the surface/text (I think that's the basic format of the test, if I can find where I read it on CT).

 

I would say, it is not proof-like but Unc. What is a "proof"? It is like looking-glass. For example: this is proof...

 

...but this is Unc. Not proof. Although we can guess that this is proof. And it will be mistake.

 

Those coins are definitely not proofs. German proofs are usually of very high quality, and those don't have any of the characteristics of proof coins.

They may be semi-prooflike, but your pictures don't look like they are fully PL. In hand, they may be more reflective than the pictures are showing, but I'd say "not PL" based on what I'm seeing.

 

Yeah, I have some "cartwheel" proofs, in which they are proof coins yet they have a strong cartwheel luster. The dies were probably used heavily to strike the proofs. I think I posted a Washington silver quarter on CT not too long ago. That was part of what I was thinking - maybe these dies were heavily used for proofs, too. But, it sounds like they weren't.

 

I've seen German coins in TPG holders that have very reflective fields but are not labeled Proofs. Here's one of mine, can't get a decent picture.

 

Here's the same 1914 Bavaria 5 Mark coin by someone with more capable camera skills. The second image is of my "cartwheel proof" 1964 Washington proof quarter I referred to earlier (which has the best of both worlds!). The Bavarian coin reminded me of that quarter, hence the curiosity. I'll try to take a better photo of the Bavarian coin's fields to show the proof-like mirroring if I can get it to show.

 

Also German proofs of that era have a mirror like rim that is distinct from business strikes.

 

That is a different coin from the one in your first post.

 

That's the pic used by the seller, which prompted me to purchase it lol.

Did I get duped?