Doug posted this in another thread but it got me to thinking about the hobby and how it has changed and as it pertains to me. I would take a wild guess and say Doug is maybe 20 years older than I and as such has amazing experiences that I never could, but as one who got started in the early 1980's I have seen a lot of changes. Many good, many bad (that is just life, one gets both!). I have seen the old days of paper catalogs and auctions, the advent of the internet. I have been there from the beginning. Some may remember some sites like Ebay (yea, but I knew the founders when they were begging us to use their site), but their predecessors like Coin Universe, Numismatists Online, and even before when there were electronic bulletin board services (kind of like Craigslist, but not really). In the old days I published paper catalogs. It was a huge hassle. Photography, layout, printing, stuffing, postage, worldwide, well, it was a big deal (anyone remember the Polaroid system we used? Probably not! That camera cost about $500, back when the average coin cost maybe $10, film, well, another cost). The results were not so great: What's that? An order form? What is that? And an 'Alternate Selection'? My, how times have changed! The changes have been amazing. I can only say that it have been for the better for the collector. The world is now at out fingertips! Instantly and immediately. It just is a really different world. I might suggest that JA sells more coins than I do each week here on CT. Good for him, and good for all of us! I do wonder what my role will be going forward. I am one of the 'old guys' (though I am younger than John! Go figure that!). Anyway, as this is somewhat of a reminiscent topic what do you remember of the 'old days', what do you miss (who do you miss), what do you prefer now versus then, what are your thoughts????
I honestly can't say. I got into ancients in 2009 so all this was normal for me. Before was U.S. in the 80s and I only had 1 coin shop to goto which closed around the time I stopped collecting due to high school and life itself. So when I came back in 2007, slabs were new, getting any coin you want at your fingertips was new. I definitely like it better. I do miss the old coin shop I went too though. They also had a club that took place at a park across the street from them. I always won something on their raffle. Best was AU range morgans and silver rounds.
I wasn't born yet when you and @dougsmit were buying some of those coins, or if I was born, I was in diapers and sucking my thumb. That's about as much insight as I can offer in the good old days in the 80s.. I hope you are not thinking of quitting selling coins. I know things are slow now, but you do have an excellent inventory. Perhaps you could start a PM list to notify those interested when you get new and cool inventory at your store. It could get you a few more sales.
No, I'm not thinking of quitting. You know, its one of those things with ancient coin dealers. Very few quit, most just simply die. True. I have thought about doing something similar to what John does, but, well, I am old fashioned. This is his venue. I would not intrude unless he gave the OK. Just the old way of doing business!
What an original approach that marks a passion for Numismatics. They say : Nothing can equal the long years of experience. The Internet has allowed beginners to learn from experts and coin-friends basic and huge amount of data and techniques in a relatively short period. Without the Internet and the relevant sites, one could need decades perhaps to reach the level of knowledge and coin acquisitions as well. Hope the future would be even more promising .
So is it viable for dealers to auction on eBay so they can enjoy a certain number of guaranteed sales per week? Some do - like Lucernae, Savoca, Solidus-Numismatik. I notice final prices are usually what you'd expect them to be. On the topic of the "old days". I was too young to experience paper catalogues. When I was a kid, I went to the local dealer in Adelaide and on a small budget assembled an assortment of coins including common Romans, Chinese cash, old English silver, 17th-18th century French coins, medieval Nuremburg tokens, Spanish cobs. When I was a teenager I sold it all to buy trendy clothes. A few years later I started collecting again. I regret selling my childhood collection - some of the coins I had are worth way more now - eg, William & Mary half-crown, Philip & Mary sixpence, Spanish 8 reales cob.
I'll be 45 this year, but I've only been collecting for 5 years or so. Last year I did get this anachronistic catalog in the mail from some fellow...no pics, just price lists and grade! I guess these were common back in the day...
The first coins I remember purchasing from a catalog were from Stephen Album. Just descriptions, so kinda a surprise what you'd actually get. But I will say the quality was decent and the grades accurate. As far as that goes, today is much better as far as seeing what you get and for browsing. I do miss the prices from those days, many times lower than they are now. Occasionally I run into Richard Hoarst, since I am based in Colorado and I asked him about the last 50 years of being a dealer and how it must have been great to buy at those prices decades ago. He said it was, but today so many new are rarer types are being found and for him that is more interesting than cheaper prices. In a way I would have to agree with him. The selection is great even if prices are higher.
That is a beautiful catalog and that is only one of many like it produced for your auctions over time. Preparing something like that before the computer age was a great deal of work and I have nothing but admiration for you and your employees!
Looking at some of my earlier purchases things were not so different then as now. I paid too much for some coins and too little for others. Of the dealers I patronized in the early days, few are still alive but the few that are were able to change with time as the business required. I know a few people who once worked for CNG and later went out on their own. Some did better than others. In the old days, I expect more of us knew and were known by the dealer who did not worry about our paying with good checks. A lot this was changed when everything went 'World Wide' and price lists in the mail stopped filling my mailbox. I remember making phone calls within 5 minutes of opening my mail and still sometimes being too late. I probably did better buying coins when I lived places that got mail delivery early in the day. Shows have changed less and I still patronize more than one dealer who does not sell online, issue lists or anything other than face to face. They probably do not make as much money as the ones that do. Maybe it is a better way to do business if you are retired from a well paying 'day job'. I can not see how some of the age 80+ dealers at shows do it, I know I couldn't. For the record, I was born in the same year as Donald Trump, Bill Clinton and George W. Bush but am a few months older than all of them and had enough sense not to run for office. To the best of my knowledge, none of them collect ancient coins either.
Great post Ken! I've been collecting coins since I was a child (I'm 50 in a few months) but ancients for around 10 years only. Internet is all I've known as an ancient collector. As a kid, I used to spend a lot of time with coin dealers who also frequented gun shows at the time and search through change from my Grandfathers laundromat for rare dates and errors. With that said, I love old catalogues and collect them as part of my reference library. I just bought a complete run of Waddell, HJB, Joel Malter and Freeman & Sear FPL's and auction catalogues with the Malters going back into the 1960's. My dad bought ancients from Joel from the time he just started; they actually sort of started together. I remember Malter catalogues on my father's desk at work, on the living room coffee table, on the back of the toilet. I recognize catalogues that I haven't seen for 40 years and it's sort of startling to have those memories come back from so long ago. Joel used to regularly send him coins on approval; he kept what he wanted and sent a check with the unwanteds back to Joel. Did you ever send coins on approval? Looking through the FPL's and catalogues today I see the working notes of the prior collectors which I find fascinating. It's my understanding that it is sort of customary for collectors of generations past to leave some of their work in situ for future collectors and researchers to discover. RBW told me that is what he did and why. I intend to do the same, but so much of our work will evaporate in the electronic ether which is a shame. On a related note, I had dinner with John Spring a couple weeks ago who wrote the book on ancient coin catalogues from 1880-1980. He spun tales about the old auction houses, dealers, collectors, all long dead that only someone who truly loved them could. It will undoubtedly be a highpoint in my collecting experience when I'm as ancient as Doug and looking back on my collecting days.
I'll just add that when I first started collecting ancients in the '80's it was from a California based company named "WorldWide Coins". I was always astonished at their monthly catalogs and always looked forward to receiving them, going through every bid or buy option (and yes, even medieval and moderns) and later even reconsidering a few offers for a discount on unsold lots.
I'm 22 years older than you are, Ken, and I remember you when you looked like you did when receiving that Navy award! I began collecting ancients in 1986 and was a dealer from 1988-2005. The thing I miss the most is the social aspect and I'm not talking about facebook or even this forum. I really enjoyed talking to collectors and other dealers at shows. Meeting new collectors and helping them get started or add a new piece to their collection was a great joy. Some of my favorite dealers were Dave Michaels, when he was still an independent dealer living in central California; Paul Rynearson, the finest gentleman I've ever met; Tom Cederlind, with his amazing knowledge and dry wit; and, of course, a young man named Ken Dorney, with whom I had many wonderful conversations. Of course, there were some I avoided, like Arnold Saslow, the used car dealer of ancients. Now coin shows are dying and I miss them, but I have my memories to keep me going...hopefully for awhile longer!
I started getting price lists in the mail in 1984. From Fred Shore, who was nice enough to help me as a beginner, Empire (Dennis Kroh also very helpful), Harlan Berk (perceived as really pricey by me back then ), Tom Cederlind, Pegasi, etc. I agree with Doug about getting a catalog in the mail, look through quickly, make a phone call to try to secure the coin you want, often you were too late. One really nice Tarentum stater Dennis told me he had 5 calls on already. I pored over all these catalogs for years because books on the subject were expensive and very hard to come by pre-internet. Dennis had a great selection of books and told me they would be a better investment than the coins. He was right about a lot of the books I bought from him. I still have most of the coins I bought in those days and most of the catalogs. I have most of the Celator issues as well, a real treat when their were no other ancient coin magazines. I regret nearly all the coins I did sell and never regret the ones I kept. I quit paying attention for 3-5 years now and then but always came back and enjoyed re-discovering my collection and the hobby. John
I have enjoyed reading these stories. It is interesting to hear a history of the hobby. I am new to ancient coin collecting. I purchased my first ancient coin in April 2015.
I am in my early-50s, but I began collecting ancient coins in the late 1970s, around age 14. I collected through high school and then took time off to go to college, grad school, start a carreer and date, before starting to collect ancients again in the mid-1990s. In the 1970's, I remember rummaging through the classified ads of the Coin World weekly newspaper (that's right, I said "newspaper") each week, looking for new dealers of ancients to whom I could write for a free list. Many of those lists had no photos at all. I remember snail mailing bid lists to auction houses, and waiting weeks for snail mail notification if I'd won a coin. I remember the market bubble forming as the Hunt brothers tried to corner the silver market. I also remember the bubble bursting and the rare coin market collapsing as the Hunt's shennanigans ended in disaster. I remember my dad giving me an article to read about NFA, in which Bruce McNall bragged about making deals in source countries for "fresh" coins to import into the U.S. When I got back into ancient coins circa 1996, nearly 15 years after my first forray in the hobby, I remember being surprised that prices were about the same as they'd been in 1981! This the result of the burst market bubble and the fallen iron curtain.
I used to love getting paper catalogs from, I believe it was, Edgar Owen and Colosseum Coin Exchange back in the early 90's. There'd be like a hundred coins, in grainy B/W, squeezed onto each little page, and always with a couple of pages of antiquities following the coins. Very quaint, and for a new collector (as I was then), very exciting.
Ahah! So you have experienced the regret of selling a collection before! So this last time you were talking about selling your collection, you were just testing us to find out if we cared enough to try to talk you out of it! LOL! Well you have our answer. Keep hanging out with us! Don't sell!