What coins would you consider to be a Julius Caesar for the 12 Caesars? Please show examples. I would like to see what collectors feel are acceptable coins to represent JC in the 12 Caesars collection.
You can use any Julius Caesar coin - there is no rule or specification for the 12 Caesars that only allows certain coins. The important thing is that you like your collection afterwards - and not other collectors
I was not asking about "rules" I was asking personal opinions. Someone can have a stone and call it one of the 12 but I want to know what other collectors would consider the type of coins they would consider a JC for a 12 collection
My opinion - you can use every JC Coin. As I said in the other thread - for me - better take a "low price non portrait" Julius Caesar in a high quality as a "high priced portrait" Julius Caesar in a bad condition - in reference of a budget. So if a collector have - for example - a budget of 1.000 Euro - I prefer - for example - a very good Venus / Aenas coin before I put the same money in a lifetime JC Portrait Denarius who have a bad condition. But as I every time said - thats my opinion.
It all depends on your criteria and budget for your collection. Asking for opinions on other peoples collection preferences, is only their preference. There are people who only collect denarii, others who collect mainly bronzes and still others who prefer to collect provincials.
My only criteria was that it had to be a bust depicting the man. I went with a post-mortem denarius, as my budget allowed me to get a fairly decent example of this type. Budget and personal taste will dictate which coins are acceptable. There are people out there that would only find a world-class aureus acceptable, whereas there are people that are perfectly happy with a worn, provincial, non-bust coin. I don't think that there are any "official" definitions out there for what constitutes a "12 Caesars Set". Interesting to know people's personal approaches and opinions on the matter, but the answer will always be "Whatever you want".
Here are the two pieces in my collection. This piece was made to pay Julius Caesar's soldiers while he was alive. The design, which has several variations, is by far the most common contemporary Julius Caesar coin. It's not cheap, however. You can expect to pay a couple thousand for a nice one. This portrait piece was issued 11 months after Caesar's assassination. The Mark Anthony side is really the obverse, but I bought it for the Caesar portrait. The preservation is among the best that I have seen in my searches on the Internet of past auctions. It was struck off-center, however, and that lowers the value. It still cost around $2,000. I have bid on Julius Caesar coins with his portrait, but have not been successful. I bid $11,000 on one, which would have left me paying $13,200 with the buyers' fee. I still didn't get it. That bid was higher than the same variety had sold for previously. As usual one person decides he or she is going to buy something, and there is no way you can out bid them. It's why I hate auctions. My impression is if some of these people were offered the same coin at bourse for less money, they wouldn't buy it. I, on the other hand, would gladly buy it. I much prefer a bourse to an auction. There are a lot of contemporary Julius Caesar coins with the goddess Venus on them. I really don't care for those, and have never gone after them. They cost a few to several thousand dollars. You can buy damaged pieces, but they are still in the $2,000 to $3,000 range.
IMO - there are no "rules" other than : what interests you, that said there are more traditional sets that generally are lifetime issues with portraits - all denarii or all aureii - these are not inexpensive coins. There are other options: - coins issued during the time of without portraits or issued in provinces or including posthumous issues e.g. for Caesar you could include this coin issued during his reign as dictator. The imagery on other coins from this moneyer, Mn. Cordius Rufus, from Tusculum make it clear that he is a supporter or Julius Caesar. The coin was issued in 46 BC the year that Caesar updated the calendar to the "Julian Calendar". https://www.sullacoins.com/post/46-bc-the-longest-year I went very non-traditional for a 12 Caesar's set: https://www.sullacoins.com/post/not-the-usual-12-caesars
I agree with the notion that there are no rules, you can assemble a set with whatever you like. I shared my current set in a 12 Caesar's thread in May so won't duplicate it here except by a link to that discussion. Caligula down! Now just two left to finish the Twelve Caesars! | Page 2 | Coin Talk Here's the criteria that I came up with that are meaningful and work for me. Of course, YMMV. These are frankly more aspirational than "black letter law" but give some direction to my search and an effort for the set to be coherent beyond "just" being a 12 Caesar's set: 1. decent portrait with a relatively full legend 2. coins that tell a story/associated with an event related to the emperor (using Foss' Historical Coins as a guide) 3. perhaps due to age, a bias to bigger coins which are easier to see 4. coins I like (especially the big silvers of the east, which generally are easier to see LOL) 5. coins can be replaced if I find another more interesting. The only hard rule for me is that the set must have a "tribute penny" but again that's just me. #5 ensures that this is always a work in progress which again has a certain appeal for me. So, my answer to the title of the thread is: whatever you like and whatever works for you. PS have fun putting together this set and let you imagination roam free. Sort of the whole reason to collect, for me at least.
Interesting how people differ with their own rules. It depends on the budget for sure, but I would want a lifetime issue. I'd prefer the elephant denarius over a posthumous portrait coin (I have a Divus Carus that I feel I have to replace because it's not a lifetime coin). I would be flexible with my JC rules because of the cost and the fact that so many of his coins simply didn't have portraits. I personally wouldn't stress too much about having a full legend either.
I would like a portrait for myself but they are very expensive. Since Roman coins are a very secondary hobby I am not sure I want to put that kind of money into it. I know in 8 years if I get a fair deal today will be a non existent deal then. So I am thinking of going for the Elephant Legion coin. Easier to get one no so high priced and still have a very fine or better coin.
The problem is, the Caesar Elefant Denarius in a good condition isn't really a financial better coin. After a Caesar Bust Coin it was the second expensive Caesar Type in the list. And the most type of JC fake coins.
"It is absolutely impossible to give strict rules by which to recognise forged or falsified coins. Nothing but the experience of long practice confirmed by some mistakes, paid for in good money, can enable one to attain by degrees the eye of an expert, which without much reasoning recognises by intuition the authenticity or falseness of a coin." -Roman Coins, Elementary Manual by Francesco Gnecchi, translated by Alfred Watson Hands Not much changed since 1903 caveat emptor:
