What is going on with surface of this 1930 Buffalo?

Interesting. I think I found the auction, and the seller's pics just make it look like the Indian needs a shave. Your pics are much more interesting.

Given there's luster in the affected area, I think that all but rules out PMD. But, I also have no idea what it could be.

Cool piece. I would have bought it if I had a few bucks burning a hole in my pocket.

 

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Seeing the difference in the planchet expressing itself over the rim moves my thinking towards a defect in the planchet itself. You'd have to wrap the coin in whatever it struck through for it to achieve that, and then the striations ought to be visible on the rim as well.

 

I actually bought this with my eBay Bucks certificate. Well $35.00 towards it anyway.

 

#1: I have to say that your enlargements are amazing!
I could actually see an atom there!

#2: I had no idea, nothing clicked -- until I saw the rim.

Now, nothing except for chemicals of some sort makes any sense to me.

 

Now we're talking. Color makes it easy to read. Now, if you can add some faces for additional effect...

rlm's cents posted: "Although I have seen numerous planchet problems (mostly wood grain) where the problem is only on one side, they do not have a side view showing the anomaly going completely through the coin." Why is that? Are they mostly in slabs? I look at them "raw." "You say "commonly seen as it happens all the time." I will bet that you cannot show me a single coin with evidence that it goes completely through the coin but can only be seen on one side."

Now, "commonly" is a word that depends on how many error coins and even coins in general one sees in a specific time period. So, please forgive me as I'll back down on using that word in my response; because it's a FACT that you or I do not examine as many coins per hour as a typical TPGS employee.

You may be stuck in the "Wonderful World of Cents." Have you ever seen a lamination error where the split goes across the surface, through the rim, and on to the edge? Still need a photo?

You have twisted my post into nonsense just to BE ABLE to disagree! OF COURSE etching removes luster. ACETONE DOES (your contention) NOT.

Kindly take another look at the coin an I think you may agree. Parts of it have an UNMOLESTED surface where the chemical etching did not touch. We call that characteristic "mint luster." The rest of the coin (in red and on much of the edge) has an altered surface.

 

That might be possible but the strong, sharp, strike of the rim next to the etching should have produced the same type of unmolested surface that is at the top of the head. Liquid FLOW (not metal flow) is the "key" to what happened to this coin.

 

You are BAD! Just when I thought this thread was finished...

 

Are you saying that you think "liquid flow" occurred post strike and not pre-strike? I don't buy the post strike liquid flow because of the luster present. Another example which to me shows that whatever happened to the planchet was pre-strike is the finned ridge on the edge of the rim at the bottom of the obverse. This shows how the metal that may have been affected had the anomaly "struck out" as the metal was force up between the collar and the obverse die.

I hope we get a true expert in here someone that is a metallurgist or an expert in Nickels that has seen something like this before. I'd really like to know what this is and how it was caused. I think this is a fascinating piece and really sparked a fun academic debate. But this debate is among a few individuals who are very knowledgable but are not experts. We may have the correct answer here, but can't know until an expert can confirm it. Is there someone that I could send this piece to for examination and confirmation?

 

You need to go reread my posts. I have never stated that acetone does anything to luster;

I think what we are not communicating on is that the "molested" (area in red) has great luster (or at the very least shine) if you look at it. What I keep saying is that the etching would totally remove all luster and/or shine.

 

If you don't believe my evaluation, try this;

Again, luster and etching are mutually exclusive.

 

This thread is fascinating!!!!

 

Has anyone asked Paul (Lehigh)?

 

Now you've gone and done it. We better hope the "old man" does not read what you posted about "luster." Just in case... As I argued before, the light reflecting from ALL METAL in practically any condition except powdery brown rust produces "luster." The original "as made" surface remaining on this coin has natural mint luster. The etched metal surface ALSO exhibits "luster" from reflected light and striations; yet it looks different. Agree or not, that said, the acid etched surface still has one type of luster remaining AFTER the original mint luster of its surface was destroyed!

Yes, the chemical ruined parts of the struck coin that it flowed on to. Look at the edge in Post#33. Part of the fin is missing under the etch and part of the fin remains. This can possibly be due to the concentration and the amount of time the chemical remained on each part of the coin.

This is clear as a bell, 100% accurate,; and I agree.

Guess after I posted this (#16):

And you posted this (#17):

I was mistaken. Sorry!

 

Not really...the COIN is fascinating!

 

I'm pretty the color is due to vinegar. I have a bag of nickels that I messed up on that have this sort of color. I'll see if I can find them real quick and show you what I mean.

 

Not the best example and not the best picture, but here it is.

This sort of funky coloration will happen when you perform the apple cider vinegar-peroxide trick, and fail to wash and dry the coin properly. The residual solution will continue doing its thing until it air dries, leaving this sort of coloration.

 

Now this thread is getting fascinating again! There is a recent thread on CT about etching Buffalo nickels using vinegar to "bring up" the dates. The vinegar acts like an acid and etches the surface. Perhaps a little heat will produce the green and rose colors.

 

That's probably my post (actually, stay tuned for an illustrated guide to vinegar dating coming tonight!)

In my experience, the only way to remove these color issues that arise from vinegar dating is to put it in MORE vinegar, and clean it well this time. The vinegar will again etch at the coin removing the discoloration by removing yet another "layer" of metal. At this point, of course, 95% of numismatic value is lost, but...

 

Here's another mild example:


And an EXTREME one:


I wouldn't be surprised if many coins with funky toning are AT'd with a very mild, diluted vinegar solution.