People never cease to amaze me...

So any ways...this past weekend I went to my LCS Dealer and an older gentleman came in (he wife was waiting in the car) to show the owner some coins he had collected over the years and part of the collection from his mother who had passed. The gentleman needed to know how much could he get for the coins. Now I figure this man was about 60-70 years of age and had a distinctive smell about him. I guess you could tell he was a farmer as he was covered in mud and debris and had this Great Depression look about him. Just from looking at him you could tell that life had not been kind to him and he worked for everything he ever got during his life.

The type of gentlemen that kept his money under his bed or buried somewhere in the woods. He brought in some ASE's that were wrapped in Littleton plastic cellophane wrappers. He also had regular 90% dimes, quarters, half dollars all wrapped individually in cellophane that I did not take pictures of. My LCS asked him how much he paid for this average-looking ASE's and junk silver; I was SHOCKED!!! to hear that he paid $49.99 for each ASE and paid $8 - dime, $17 - quarter, and $22 - half dollar!!! Littleton Co. had sent their catalog's via the mail to them and his mother over the years.
Both the LCD and I looked at each other and were in shock. My coin dealer told the man he charged $21 for a 2015 ASE and a lot cheaper for the 90% silver.

I will never forget the look on the man's face. He knew he was ripped off and a sadness covered his face. My LCD gave him a VERY good deal to try to make a wrong right; but the man was very proud and insisted to treat him and pay him like any other customer (My LCD still gave a great deal for his coins). I watched him as he went back to his car and told his wife and she was clearly upset. They both left and we discussed how they were the victims of pure GREED. I often wonder to myself how these people go to sleep at night. I know that this happens everyday and the elderly always get targeted the most; but I just think it is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!! I firmly believe in Karma and GOD don't like ugly. I just wanted to share this with you guys. Thanks for listening.

 

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Ouch.
You get this all over the place though. Just TV Mike does the same thing.
It's all about profitability (scamming) people. This occurs in many things not just coins/bullion.

 

I enjoy littleton coin storage products, but as you said their coin prices are outrageous. As much as I feel for those people it is also their responsibility to be smarter consumers. Not saying that makes overcharging and deceiving people okay, but if you get ripped you are partially to blame, especially with all of the reliable referential resources at our disposal today

 

wow
Spot Silver in 2002 was between $4.25 and $5.15 ish.

 

For all we know, he could have purchased the earlier SAE's when silver hit its high in the $40's.

Chris

 

Chris brings up a great point. I've no doubt the man overpaid but when he bought these coins is a huge factor. If he bought them around 2002 then yes, he was taken quite badly. If, for example, he bought them in 2011 when silver was sky high then not so much. I hope it was explained to him that when silver is bought plays an integral factor of what bullion-value coins typically cost (or should cost, by ethical standards).

 

I wish I could get jaded and cynical about stories like this since it happens so often, but it hurts just as much to hear every time.

 

The only Littleton coins I ever get are the freebies (free state quarter!) and the $1 for $1 deals (8 uncirculated presidential dollars for $8!).
Everything else is highly overpriced.

 

It's a shame that the folks were treated this way. Unless the company or companies that sold them the coins made false claims, there is not much recourse ... willing buyer argument. Don't know how information on coin valuation can be made much more public than it is now. It doesn't take much effort to find out how much ASE's are worth. Still, especially for some older folks, the internet is foreign territory. Was recently told by an older collector that the internet is something for his grandkids to use. Would have been useless to try to push him into it.

This summer, my wife's uncle, who's in his 90's, was looking to buy a dozen double eagles to give to various male relatives. He was contemplating buying from a company that advertised in a Sunday paper supplement. He really wanted coins from his birth year, but they were steering him to some AU's from the 1850's for a little over $3000 per coin. The prices weren't outrageous, but not that good either, and he wouldn't have gotten his birth year. I was able to find him a better deal, and he bought PCGS MS64 saints minted in his birth year for less than $1700 per coin. I had him deal directly with the coin dealer. There is no way I wanted to be a financial intermediary for multiple reasons.

Cal

 

I really wish there were a way to read those Littleton barcodes and get an idea what era they're from. It always matters a little, but in this case it matters a lot. There were a lot of guys buying like crazy in 2011 when silver went briefly to $40, and they're ALL going to take a loss. Every estate auction I go to that has full rolls of ASE's mostly is big on 2011's. You KNOW every one of them is a BIG loss for the family. The psychology of this field somehow makes some people buy at the VERY TOP of bubbles. People are just too ready to believe everything's going to Hades in a handbasket.

 

Regarding the gentleman's look and smell, we had a story about a farmer arriving to vote at a country fire hall on election. He was of Pennsylvania German stock, and had the distinctive accent:

"Farmer Elmer Stolzfus arrived to vote at the fire hall. "I'm heah ta wote", said Elmer. The Inspector leafed through the 15 pages of Stolzfuses in the pollbook, and found 6 Elmers. "Why, I'm da one wit' da farm dahn in da hollah." The woman found the one with the best address match, and asked Elmer to sign the register. She seemed satisfied with the match of Elmer's shaky scrawl with the one in the pollbook. She also noticed Elmer's unique aroma, and blanched a little because of it. She handed Elmer his ticket to give the Machine Inspector to vote. "Nah, let's chust see heah", Elmer muttered to himself inside the curtain. He punched the buttons hard enough to make the machine visibly rock. When he pushed the last button, the big green one that registered his vote, he emerged from the curtain and plodded back toward the door. The Judge of Election said to him, "Thanks for coming to vote, Elmer, but I'm afraid you tracked mud all over the room here." Elmer replied, "No I dint! You chust VISH dat vas mut."

 

As the son of an elderly parent who was the victim of scamming (fortunately losses were not catastrophic) I'm very sympathetic.

At the same time, I'm very frustrated and befuddled as well.

Many elderly people on fixed incomes are not strangers to price comparison shopping — they'll travel an extra distance to a Walmart grocery to save a few cents on milk, eggs and bread versus the Publix that's right around the corner.

Yet when it comes to something like coins, the thought never occurs to them. The man in the OP's story didn't need to be Internet savvy. All he needed to do was visit a coin shop to get a comparison to Littleton's prices. Obviously he was aware of the existence of coin shops and knew where to find one.

Arrgghh!!!

 

To all those gathering their pitchforks and lighting their torches:

No, you're not likely to get rich buying from Littleton and selling to local coin shops.

Yes, Littleton has high prices.

However, everyone I've heard here seems to agree that Littleton grades fairly (even conservatively), and that they ship exactly what they advertise.

And, as others here have pointed out, that farmer may well have been buying during the 2011 frenzy. Heck, I bought an ASE or two north of $40 in that time frame, and some silver halves at $15 or more, and I'm a terrible cheapskate who pounces on underpriced stuff on eBay (and, in those days, Craigslist).

If you think Littleton is currently overcharging threefold or more for common coins, you ought to be able to link to some offers. I don't think they're especially secretive about their prices.

Would I send someone to them to buy? No. But are they evil and rapacious? Not in my opinion.

 

Unfortunately I have a similar story.....
I work the door at a coin show in Timonium Md. About 6-8 times a year.A few of the members here have also been to this show and we know each other face to face .
About 4 shows ago an older man walks in . I asked him to sign in and if I could direct him as to what he was looking for.
He told me he had items to sell. I should of guessed as he had 3 rather large shopping bags.
I often ask the customer as I can direct them to the person who sells mostly foreign coins and currency , or to another dealer who may have exactly what the customer is looking for.
So I direct the older man over to a dealer who was buying.
And went about watching the room and greeting customers as they entered.
So I see Ralph going through this guys boxes. Very nice boxes in fact so nice the boxes were for the most part worth more than what was inside them.
TV garbage boxes full of crap! Coin and medal sets that you couldn't give away. He did have a set of the 5 ASE that was the only thing he had of any value.
He had a binder full of pages of the documents that came with the sets as well as the paper work of what he was charged.
One of his grand children needed some money so he was going to sell his treasures to help them out!
I was so sadden as Ralph kept telling him what he had was more or less worthless. I will also add in the most polite way possible as he too could see the disparity in the man's face.
I also felt bad steering him to Ralph as for over two hours went by with Ralph looking at everything and saying no.
I helped the man back to his car as it was a large amount of wood boxes as well as others made from assorted material's .
As he got into the car he thanked me for my help. And to this day I see his face ....the face of a broken man who believed what he was told by the TV pitch man.
I seen the sorrow in his heart as he just wanted to sell his treasures to help out a loved family member.
It's truly sad to see another person taken by a situation like this...yes true buyer beware!
Stories like this need to be told.... as we need to protect our hobby from the snakes whom prey on those who know no better.
And lastly I to believe in KARMA both the good as well as the bad. And it's going to get you one way or the other .
I seldom wish bad on another but must confess that day words that cannot be used here as well as very ill feeling spouted from me.
I can only hope that the old man found away to solve the problems he and his family had.

 

Gosh, what a bummer thread.

 

Why can't people see the obvious? Big marketing programs cost money and need to be paid for! I don't care if it's terrestrial radio ads, TV costs, big direct mail, whatever. The likelihood is near 100% that if it has a big ad budget behind it, the stuff is GOING TO BE OVERPRICED. It's almost axiomatic! Anything you become aware of via mass media is nearly always going to be either not a good deal or a scam. One example? The current ad blitz on radio for "self storing gold and silver IRA's". THEY DON'T EXIST!!!! The IRS has never approved even one of them! All those radio ad con men are selling is a BROCHURE about how to set up an LLC to hold your metals, an LLC which is run by YOU! The IRS has never allowed it! All they're selling is a legal THEORY, not anything that works.

 

I think it's very foolish to think great opportunities would be broadcast in some sort of mass media - direct mailing, radio, television, internet advertisements, etc. Come on.

Hard not to feel bad for someone who was taken but it's also hard to understand how or why someone would sink a bunch of money into something they've never bothered to understand themselves.

 

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Yes .....and No
Yes as most of us would prefer to hear good news, wish well on others.
But No... we need to educate others as much as possible so our hobby doesn't get a dark shadow , as collectors we must praise those who do honest business dealings.
And enforce the right morals to those whom don't .
This needs to be addressed up front both the good as well as the bad.
Those of us who have a passion in this hobby want to see it carry on.... we may differ in many ways....but the one common thread is this hobby. This is what draws us here.
We owe it to ourselves , to our fellow collectors, to the YN'S no matter what their age. To report , enforce , and share all the information ...to educate , and grow this hobby.
We can't stop those who have larceny in their hearts.....but we can educate , share, and call those out who take advantage . Doing business is one thing.. ripping people off is another... share your knowledge it will make a difference .

 

It's not just the elderly that get into these kind of predicaments. Littleton has been around since the 1940's. Even when I was a kid, I answered their ads in Boys Life Magazine and did business with them until I learned and did business elsewhere. The only good thing is that this happened to me in the 1960's. Those overpriced coins from back then appreciated nicely and I was not out of anything. The only good thing, still, about Littleton, is that they are accurate in their grading. Their albums are nice also, but I would not buy retail from them, instead I buy from Wizard Coin Supply at a nice discount. And those deals they still advertise as stated above are a good deal, but they are only for new customers. After you purchase a couple of these, they will send your money back and not sell to you again through these special offers. It IS another sad tale and that is why we are here, to steer folks in the right direction. And don't get me wrong, David Sundman is a respected businessman and runs a tight ship, but they do not need to charge these kind of prices. I'm looking to stop by their company in a couple of weeks to see if they might give me a tour. It would be interesting to see just what kind of overhead they might be incurring there to possibly justify these prices. I can imagine that sending out coins on approval can get to be a losing proposition with people ordering a special offer that comes with other coins that they never have any intention of paying for. And I have no clue what kind of compensation they pay their employees. They also own Mystic Stamp Company which is a approval based company.