It ain't a proper collection without at least one mystery coin

I've always wanted to own an odd mystery coin, and now I do.

Introducing this mysterious AR Unit from an unknown Kingdom in Sindh or Multan, the two southernmost provinces of modern day Pakistan (part of ancient India). It hasn't been properly catalogued and studied, so there is not much information on this coin type. Chances are there may never be a lot of information on this coin anyway it was minted in an era of transition...the demise of Hinduism and Zoroastrianism in the region with the arrival of Islam.

Whichever kingdom minted these coins would have been destroyed by the invading Islamic armies, and it's history and former culture/religion obliterated by the sword of their Islamic conquerors.

I like this coin. It may be very simple and plain, but it is also very mysterious and symbolizes the demise of a way of life...Pre-Islamic Pakistani culture. These people may not have left us much of anything in the way of history, but at least they left us their coins.



Unknown Sindh or Multan Kingdom
AR Unit (Circa 7th or 8th Century CE)
Dots and dashes perhaps representing a fire altar, Brahmi letters below; Ha Shi
Reverse blank as made
16mm, 1.24g
Fishman, JONS 201, Type 7A
*Coin belongs to a newly discovered series still not properly understood.

 

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I find these interesting too. Nice find.

 

If any of you folks have any "mystery coins" of any sort, doesn't have to be Indian or Asian, feel free to share.

 

Here's a mystery "coin" I posted just a day or two ago in another thread.

It is not the type of thing I collect. A local jewelry store that has many nice Greek and Roman coins set into pendants and rings usually has a few grungy and inexpensive unset coins for sale. This object was there for the last several visits. I felt sorry for the poor thing and brought it home .

• The patina looks like lead and it is heavy for its size (16.5 gm, 20x22 mm, 3.5-8 mm thick) , therefore I guess it is lead.
• I thought it might be a seal, bulla, or tessera. Further investigation showed that I really have no idea what those words mean
• Could it be a test strike of a coin?
• The squiggly script leads me to believe it is Islamic.
• One side has a border of 5-pointed stars. I don't recall seeing stars in lieu of dotted borders on ancient coins. My gut feeling is that this object is modern, or at least not ancient and maybe not even medieval.
• I am utterly lost when trying to understand Arabic script.
• Apparently I never bookmarked any of the various references and links provided by CoinTalk members who collect such things.
• So far, I've searched the usual archives without finding anything similar, possibly because those archives are for ancient coins and this may not be ancient.
• Google Image searches for various combinations of "lead, PB, tessera, seal, bulla, Islamic, Arabic" haven't yielded anything that looks similar.
• 7Calbrey tried his hand and translating the script and thinks one side may include the name "Izmir" and the other side the name "Timbako". So far, various searches for those names/words haven't been fruitful.

 

Sometimes I have to question just how far we can go in identifying a coin. We collectors of mainstream ancients expect coins to be attached to a ruler or time period and a city or a mint. These can be quite concrete unless we are dealing with issues where several rulers issued coins in the name of their predecessor where we have to research details and attribute some coins marked, for example, England's king Henry to John or Richard.

In some cases I'm not sure coins were intended to be attached to a ruler. The Shahi jital series labelled 'Great Commander' etc. fall in this category to my way of seeing them. We attribute such coins to large spans of time. US coins would be like this if they left off the dates but we have the option as it is of associating a coin with who was President that year or not as we see fit.

Below is a coin I have listed as 'Malwa-Gupta Succession' which more or less means 'unknown India' at my level. Is it a mystery? To me it is. Part of that is my ignorance of the history of the region and time (5th century AD?).


My favorite kind of mystery is one step beyond the one below. I have it labeled as Afganistan but have no idea which side is up or other details of ID. It was given to me by someone who had no idea and I'm below that. The label Afganistan makes it seem too close to being IDed to be a total mystery.

 

@TIF: Would agree with 7Calbrey that the lowest line on the left reads Izmir إزمير . Above it is a word that starts with "Har..". The script style could very well be Ottoman. It is not ancient as Pre-1300AD it was not customary to add the dotting of the characters. Also the floating style fits best with post 1600AD. I can not make a "Timbako" of the text on the other side. Looks more like something as "Tinakur" تناكور. Unfortunately that does not mean anything. (Arab script is not always easily interpreted. Problem here is also that it is difficult to decide with which elements which dots belong, that makes for a different character meaning)

 

Interesting thread!!

All my 'mystery' coins are long gone and were probably low grade Islamic issues found in the 'Middle East' from uncleaned lots purchased in the '80's

 

Uncertain Empress AE16
Obv: Empress facing r.
Rev: Athena Pallas standing left, wearing corinthian helm, holding transverse spear and resting hand on shield.

I'm on a constant search for coins that are unidentified and that I think may be fun to figure out. Here's a provincial that you would think could be identified.

 

what MZ said! some delightfully weird stuff here. one of these is on my list as well sallent!

 

I have some coin German,Canada,Thailand,British,America,wheat penny,nickel.

 

Welcome @Friday, but you do realize you are posting in an Ancients forum.

 

My Mystery Sindh or Multan kingdom AR Unit arrived today. As expected, she is a very thin coin. The edges looked to have been cut in some form of flan preparation, as its commonly seen in other Asian coins (See Abbasid, Ummayad, Sassanian coinage).

Other than that, yeah, I'm pretty sure the obverse is a crude fire altar. And the original die seems to have been square shaped with rounded corners. I wish I could say more about these coins, but it will have to remain a mystery unless numismatics scholarship sheds more light on them.

 

Cool coin, and TINY @Sallent ... I meant to say to you to have a great trip back to your Homeland! That will be fun. My wife and I are planning a trip there sometime soon too. I always get my 'Romeo y Julietta' Cuban cigars in Hong Kong... there was always a great cigar shop right off of Nathan Road in Kowloon that had a great selection and fair prices.

As to 'mystery coins', mine are from a quite mysterious people just north of Rome. The Etrurians. If you read any history of them, it is relatively spotty, and their origins seem rather unknown. Some say they were originally from Lydia, some say they were peoples migrating over the Alps into Italia. Eventully, they were absorbed into Rome. However, the first Roman Kings were Etrurian...

The Mysterious Etrurians:


Etruria Populonia 3rd C BCE AR 20 Asses 8.1g Metus Blank HN 152 Obv-Rev.jpg
(similar to a Roman Didrachm)


Etruria Populonia 211-206 BCE AR 10 Asses 20mm 4.21g die brk Lr Male Hd L - Blank Obv-Rev.JPG
(similar to a Roman Denarius)


Etruria Populonia 2-1/2 Asses 3rd C BCE AR Radiate Fem Hd CII Blank EC 104 HN Italy 179 RARE 2 exist (This one and the British Museum). Ex: E.E. Clain-Stefanelli Collection
(similar to a Roman AR Sestertius)

 

Sweet coins. Got to love the Etruscans.

As far as Cuban cigars go, I always get the occasional box from a client. Being in South Florida that's not an uncommon thing.

My first taste of Cuban cigars was in my mid-20's when I took a 3 month trip throughout Europe. I bought 4 boxes of Cubans (Cohiba and Romeo y Julieta)
and a couple of bottles of wine, and smoked and drank my way through Europe while taking plenty of pictures of all the ancient sites I always wanted to see.

The only place I went that I don't recall much was the Coliseum because I bought a mini bottle of Absinthe and downed it while stuck in an hour's long line waiting to get in. Good times, young and with no responsibilities.

These days I can barely seem to take more than a week's vacation. With a legal practice and family to care for, my vacations tend to be weekend road trips and short 3-4 day getaways.

 

Sounds like big fun in Europe. Most of my career had me all over Europe, the Americas, and Asia. There were some fun times between all the work... and LOL a few alcohol blank periods in there too. Ah, yeah, I used to get Cohibas too! We have similar tastes.

 

I like a good mystery...




Obv: Athena in crested helmet r.
Rev: forepart of facing bull r.
17mm, 4.0g.


Uncertain AE16 / River-God


Uncertain Geta? AE16
Obv: Ceasar bust r.
Rev: Isis? in distyle temple.

 

Is the second one not this one?

 

Hi Cyrrhus, This is probably from Pergamon but i have not found a match.

 

Maybe Ae Julia Paula? Just a guess. Have a look on Wildwinds.

 

Whoa I'm really behind on this thread!

So far I have one mystery "coin" in my collection. It's far from ancient and I don't have a picture. What is fun is speculating where it is from and hoping to resolve where it came from.