Cultural Property Laws in Germany and the US

Yes I bought a coin from Naumann auction 46 and have had no shipping status replies, although they did state on the invoice about a delay of 2-4 weeks.

 

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I agree that Naumann is probably on the steep part of the learning curve and ship times should get better. I remember when the MOC with Italy was signed, shipments from Italy took a looooooong time. Now times are better.
I am in the same place (the steep part of the learning curve) at work. I am trying to restart a chemical plant that has been down for a year and a half. We have been running full speed for 2 months to restart and hope to make batch 1 today. When all is said and done we should make 3 batches in 2 days.

 

Still waiting for my package from Germany that was shipped three weeks ago. Tracking number still doesn't work.

 

I'm waiting for some packages from Israel. I think U.S. Customs can really get jammed up and slow. Sometimes my Israeli coin shipments can take 6 or 7 weeks.

 

The new copy of Coins Weekly has just hit my inbox and has a clearer overview of the new laws, towards the bottom of the article they talk about the impact on coin collectors, here's the link
http://www.coinsweekly.com/en/News/...roperty-Protection-Act-into-effect/4?&id=4234

 

Wow, rrdenarius => man, I really feel your pain ... I'm currently working-on keeping this archaic backfill system goin' ...

=> 60 year old piping, which winds for 36,000 feet laterally and currently 4,300 feet vertically!!

Yup, it's probably the world's longest water slide!!

 

See post #22 here. The German Numismatic Society (DNG) also published an article, in German, about the impact or rather possible impact of this act: http://www.numismatische-gesellscha...chten#neuregelung-des-kulturgutschutzgesetzes
According to the German federal government, most of the new regulations do not affect collectors outside the European Union anyway. https://www.bundesregierung.de/Cont...r-muenzsammler.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=2 The rules for exports to non-EU countries have been stricter than those applying to EU destinations anyway. But as mentioned before, much of what the law says is fairly vague ...

Christian

 

Thanks for posting this, Christian!

There are some excellent points being made in this document. Below are a few of my favorite excerpts with the help of GOOGLE Translate (unedited):

... Coins ran their purpose as means of payment following generally far around. Therefore, the stamping location is often not identical with the circulation, exploration or storage place, and it would be wrong to automatically connect to a specific origin of minting...

And this one:

... The reputable coin dealers also play an important role by ensuring that the coins that are centuries in private collections, will come to light and are not disposed of carelessly by the heirs of the collector...

This one is my favorite:

...State of origin is defined as "one [state] in which the cultural property originated or who has such a close relationship with the heritage that he has placed it at the time of shipment as national treasures under protection"...

I interpret this to mean that the country of origin is not necessarily the place where the coin was minted but rather the place where the coin was used.

 

That paragraph is primarily about the question what country could be considered the origin of some cultural heritage object, i.e. which country's export laws would apply. A dealer who wants to import such an object is obliged to get an export license along with the object - if the laws of the country of origin require that.

A little later, in the paragraph that starts with "Die Feststellung des korrekten Herkunftsstaates", the fact that ancient Roman coins for example circulated in an area that today is about 40 countries is mentioned. Not that this would be news but the last sentences of that paragraph say that such a coin would be an object with several possible countries of origin, and that it is not clear yet how this issue will be addressed.

If a coin collector in DE wants to sell his collection to somebody in a different country, the value threshold of €50,000 for non-EU countries continues to apply. What is new is a €100,000 threshold for exports to other EU member states.

Also, a professional seller (dealer) is required to provide documentation if a cultural heritage object has a value of more than €2,500. That will be the easier part. The other criterion is "archeological relevance" which affects extremely rare coins. If you enter "Münze" or "Münzen" at http://www.kulturgutschutz-deutschland.de/ , you will get 26 results only, and most of these are collections, not single coins ...

Christian

 

I finally got a working tracking number!

Still in Germany...

The auction house says they'll look into it. They have been quite professional about all this.

 

Hello All,

Naumann told me it maybe will be shipped last week..no news of course, there is a new auction ending this weekend..but they not been able to sent my coin yet, however the money they will take this week with paypal.
I am just wondering, my coin was from auction 46...did you fellow members got your coins from auction 44? or 45? or also nothing? I do not get why they continue auction while they can not ship the coins.................
In general getting a little bit irritated..

 

I agree my coin was from auction 46, and have not received mine yet I will email them soon I was notified as I paid (everyone still has to pay quickly) that it could take 2-4 weeks, we are up to 3 weeks now.

 

My coin from auction 44 has neither cleared nor shipped, so just sit tight and wait your turn, you auction 46 guys .

Auction 45 (3 July) was actually held before auction 44 (7 Aug). I don't know if 45 was before or after their move to Austria. I'd be curious to know if anyone who won coins from 45 have already received them or are still waiting.

 

That's interesting how in the auction Cyrrhus and myself were in we were advised 2-4 weeks but they have not sent previous auctions 7 weeks on, maybe if they advised everyone 8-12 weeks they wouldn't have anyone bidding in current auction.

 

I picked up two coins in Naumann 45 (July 3) and they were received on or before July 12.

Ah the good old days .

 

They are in the US! Set to be delivered today!

But at my home away from college. But I go home this weekend.

 

you are a lucky B....)

 

My lots were just entered into the Fedex system and they have yet to leave Vienna, but from past experience I will have them in hand by Thursday morning.

 

I am waiting on my A46 coins, but it has only been 3 weeks.... so no surprise. Lots from Elsen & LAC were purchased about the same time and arrived last week.

 

I am in a similar position. My auction 45 lot shipped July 7th and arrived July 12th. My auction 44 single lot was was marked "paid" August 8th and has not shipped yet.

I will sit out auction 47 this weekend and if others are doing the same you might pick up some bargains.

I read http://www.coinsweekly.com/en/New-German-Cultural-Property-Protection-Act-into-effect/4?&id=4234 which says "coins are not considered archaeological items if they are available in a great number..." The coin I won is just a provincial bronze, but the cataloger described it as "Extremely Rare".

I predict that in the coming months we will see catalogers altering their vocabulary:
(nothing) becomes "extremely common"
"scarce" becomes "common"
"rare" becomes "scarce"
"extremely rare" becomes (nothing)
"unique" becomes "seldom seen"

A New York Times article http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/29/a...otection-law-comes-under-fire-in-germany.html suggests art galleries are allowed to resubmit paintings in other regions of Germany. It will be interesting to see if procedures designed for million-euro paintings work well for 100 euro ancient coins.