Medieval coin ID: Edward the Somethingth

I have a small silver medieval coin that I've partially identified, but I'd like some help if possible to narrow it down even further. Here's the coin:

So far, I think that it is a silver penny from England, and issued by either Edward II or Edward III. The reverse reads "Civitas London" (City of London) so I'm pretty confident at least about the country ID But "Edward II or III" covers over 70 years, and I'm hoping that one of y'all might be able to narrow it down a bit. Any help is appreciated.

 

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I think you may have an Edward I based on the obverse legend, but I'll admit to ignorance with the new coinage series. Is there a reason you think Edward II or III over Edward I?

 

never mind. I thought the inscription EDW R ANGL DNS HYB didn't continue outside EI's reign but it does. I guess the tell is style, which is difficult To discern from how worn the portrait it. I think the odds might still be in favor of EI due to the massive recoinage effort during his reign, but again, I'm not sure what you are seeing which suggests Edward II or III

 

To be honest, my attempt at attributing this was so long ago that I've forgotten why I ruled out Edward I. If you think it's likely to be him rather than a later Edward, I will happily defer to your greater knowledge of the series.

 

It's a tough series and I'll admit I've never delved into it much. Let me keep looking and I'll see if I can narrow it down. Letter forms help, but that nick on the first 'E' is hampering things a little...

 

i have an edward the first!

 

The bifoliate crown says it's most likely not Edward I. Only class 10 is bifoliate with Edward I, and all later issues with Edward II and III and everyone else that reigned after them is bifoliate. Edward I is usually trifoliate.

The OP coin is for sure from London. The lettering makes me think Edward III.

 

No, you don't. The bifoliate crown along with the cross on the obverse says it's later. Given the backwards "N", the bifoliate crown, the Mayfield hair, I would say Edward III.

 

For the record, see the previous 2 crowns posted, then see this crown to see the difference between bifoliate and trifoliate.

 

hu...really? so it's the little prongs on the sides of the crown that matter? i'll be darned.

thanks for the info!

 

Thanks Swish! I certainly did not catch that. Guess I need to bone up on my Edwards...

 

Well, I've been looking through online photos of Edward II and Edward III pennies to see if I could notice any differences. (I've now ruled out Edward I based on the bifoliate crown, which fortunately is easy to see on my specimen. Looks like I was right the first time.) I noticed that on Edward II coins the N is usually the normal shape, while Edward III have either a backwards N or an N that looks like a capital Pi. My coin has the standard N, so maybe it is likely to be Edward II?

Also, most examples that I found have the king's name as EDWR (unless that's EDW R for Edwardus Rex?), while mine clearly gives it as EDWAR. Any significance to this?

Also also: This has made me appreciate the skill of medieval coin specialists in reading those tiny, cramped, abbreviated legends with weird letter-forms.

 

First off, the "R" you refer to means "REX", which is short Latin for King. "EDW" is Edward, EDWA is Edward, R is Rex. So the Obverse legend reads EDW R or EDWA R. There are some legends that read EDWAR R, but those have not been presented. EDWA R ANGL DNS HYB is a common legend on class 10 (Edward I) pennies, but it goes forward with Edward II and Edward III. They continued it. Most of their pennies had the same legend. You have to look at the lettering to see the difference. Start with the "S". In one reign, it looked one way, in another it looked different. In a third, still different.

 

It's more than the little prongs, but, yeah, the little prongs have a lot to do with it.

 

I asked a friend at the show last weekend and he suggested the Galata guide by Withers but my interest in the coins falls a bit short of a level requiring the book. I did find a website that looks interesting. Has anyone used it?
http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/pages/edwardian-Pennies/Edwardian Pennies P17.htm#Identification aids

 

Thank you for adding a reference.

 

Thanks for the website Doug! I had been considering getting the Galata guide, but have been on a bit of a French kick at the moment... Might grab Duplessy first.

 

yeah, i tried to do mine....these are hard.

 

Agreed - I think I lucked out with mine as it has the distinctive pellet at the beginning of the legends, and if I'm understanding my Spink catalogue, this only happened with Edward I

England
Edward I, r. 1272-1307 (1279-1307)
London Mint, AR New Coinage Penny, 20.79mm x 1.4 grams
Obv.: ✚ ºEDW R' ANGL DNS HyB
Rev.: ºCIVI | TAS | LON | DON
Note: Class 4d
Ref.: SCBC 1397

 

Actually, I disagree. These are easy, when you apply some effort. Romans are hard. But I bet @dougsmit disagrees. It's a matter of perspective.