Perusing the auction houses, I came across this listing: https://hibid.com/lot/186548664/2016-gold-mercury-and-standing-liberty-empty-boxes?ref=lot-list I just don't see how this isn't essentially selling a pre-made "scam in a box" just add fake coin. I wrote to the auction house and they were all offended at my accusation (I didn't accuse them of anything, just stated that I wouldn't want to have anything to do with selling them). I then got a laundry list of reasons why someone might need to buy new packaging: "There are very valid reasons why empty packaging is sold. If you go to eBay, there are plenty of sellers of these boxes, in addition to empty boxes for Proof Silver Eagles, Commemorative Proof coins, etc. The main reason is because many people have the coin or bought the coin in a 3rd party holder, such as NGC, PCGS, ANACS or ICG, and wish to have the original packaging, which makes the coin "complete". Some people remove the coin from the 3rd party hodler and place it back into the packaging. Also, and this applies to Gold and Silver Proof Eagles, which some people wish o put into their IRA's. Yes, bullion can be placed into an IRA account. For the proof coins, they cannot be placed in the IRA unless they are in original mint packaging, so someone who has a PR-69 Gold Eagle and wishes to place it in their IRA, will buy the empty box so the coin meets the requirements for IRA. Another reason is that some people, like me, who live on the coast of Florida, were ravaged by Hurricane Ian September 2022 and although the coins were not damaged, the packaging was, as cardboard and water do not mix!" I don't know, I just know I wouldn't be comfortable selling them, especially with the CoAs. I guess I wanted to know if there's a general consensus on this topic or am I just naive?
I can fill in a little bit here...... Back in the 1970's my granddad bought me two of the GSA Morgan dollars shown below. They were the absolute highlight of my kid coin collection. Those stupid government COA's and boxes were in the way of me enjoying my prize coins so I did what any kid would do. I tossed them and have regretted it ever since.... Fortunately a fellow here on the forum had the boxes and COA's that he gave me for free and I have been indebted to him ever since.... So yeah, I can see a legit reason to offer them.
I have a few items that were damaged by flood water. The coins mostly were unharmed, but the packaging is a mess. And I have several proof sets that I bought as part of packages that are missing box or COA or both. So I see the legitimate market. That being said, I can understand your concerns about scammers. Darn!
While something like this could be utilized in a scam, there is a legitimate market for this type of thing. Therefore, I don't see a glaring ethical issue with what the sellers are doing. This type of thing does delegitimize the purpose of the CoA though. If the coin is legit, then there's really no harm done. But the CoA was not originally issued for the coin to which it'll be associated in the future...............sooooooo hmm?
I kinda feel like the "CoA" is a bogus concept to begin with. Oooh, a slip of paper! I'm sure it's always been just an inch or two away from this one particular coin.
Maybe I should have been more specific, "FURTHER delegitimize" Kinda reminds me of my fishing lure collecting days. People would find an old lure on one side of the country, find an empty but correct box on the other side of the country, then advertise it as "Lure with original box". Again, no real harm done, but not 100% on the up and up either.
https://hibid.com/lot/186548664/2016- [gold-mercury-and-standing-liberty] -empty-boxes?ref=lot-list The coins listed above were only sold in OGP. Are you saying these coins are being counterfeited? ("just add fake coin") I purchased several GSA CC Morgans that came with the plastic holder only. I see nothing wrong with me purchasing empty OGP and putting the GSA coins back in their original packaging. FYI, the US Mint sells a box and sleeve for BU ASE's
I remember when I first started collecting and was carving up proof sets for my albums and tossing out all the packaging. Years later I learned they had value and wished I had held on to them.
And yet, that original packaging -- especially early cellophane wrappers -- has caused so many coins to tone unattractively. As best I can tell, Mint packaging is not generally a great choice for long-term coin storage. Because I'm a pack-rat, I've kept most of my Mint packaging for the relatively few things I got in it. For gold and large silver, I take out the coin and capsule, and put in a slip with an index to my spreadsheet of "coins kept in the SDB". (I'm not big on that kind of obsessive record-keeping, but I also don't have that much gold or large silver!) Gold isn't that prone to destructive toning, but it is prone to wandering away with uninvited visitors, so it does NOT stay in the attractive and plainly-labeled Mint packaging.
I've chimed in on this before and was actually looking for OGP on some items awhile back. I have the entire Souvenir Mint Sets (P & D) collection from 1972 to 1998, but it took me some doing. Some of those sets have really low mintage numbers, (1972-D) to be exact. So I was asking around for the original blue and green envelopes for some of the sets I got without envelopes. Some of the members here started down the "counterfiet" rabbit hole in response. I can see where there might be people who would use it as an opportunity to scam someone, but I can also personally tell you that there are times when legitimate collectors would love to have a source for those OGP materials. I guess it is like anything else, "buyer beware." If you are buying something and suspect there might be some counterfieting going on, or you simply aren't sure about the coin/set, do your due-diligence before buying. I, for one, appreciate having a source for those materials.
I don't think you're naive, as I've a large quantity of these packages. I thought they could be filled with a raw/lesser-grade Unc. Gold coin. than the MS/Proof 69-70 certified coins I purchased. I received the original packaging as an addition to the NGC/PCGS TPG coin, for virtually very little additional cost. It just isn't practical to re-use these components for other than the purposes you've listed, unless you had a source for "raw-counterfeit" coins, as were the originals. I personally believe it isn't dishonest to substitute, as some of the coins I purchased in virtually perfect condition were sold as un-graded MS/Proof, and came back from top-tier TPG as "details", lower grade Unc. coins. If you acquire "ungraded" coins for re-submission to any TPG, the result could be far from your expectation. JMHO https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=1/2+oz+$25+Gold+American+Eagle+NGC+67&_sacat=0&_odkw=1/2+oz+$25+Gold+American+Eagle+NGC+66&_osacat=0 https://www.ebay.com/itm/1859256712...Ymu3u/c3oXQrhNw2aEYrvYDLSM|tkp:Bk9SR-isuZa7Yw
I've got a few GSA CCs in the hard cases, one of the boxes was pretty beat up so I bought an empty box as a replacement.
I’m on the lookout for boxes for a couple of recent-issue mint-state European coins I bought on eBay. They came in mint capsules without boxes. Not a big deal, but it would be nice to have the boxes if available cheap. There are all sorts of “containers” for different items for sale on the net. No reason not to have them available because some crooks may use them to defraud … they have legitimate uses too. Only real complaint would be if the containers themselves were fakes. Cal
