CNG 103 purchase

I will post this new acquisition even though I just won it in CNG 103. I have been looking for an Akragas tetradrachm to add to the collection for quite some time. This is another example of how the same coin can look very different depending upon how it is photographed. It was said recently in this forum that CNG takes the best coin photos. That may be true if you wish to see a coin with all its defects and blemishes, which perhaps is the best way to see it. Here is the photo from CNG 103:



Akragas, Sicily, AR tetradrachm, c 460-446 BC, 23 mm, 17.37 g, 12h. OBV: Sea eagle with closed wings, standing left on dotted line; AKRAGANTOS above and retrograde below / REV: Crab; flower with tendrils below; all within shallow incluse circle. Lee Group II; HGC 2, 79 (R1); SNG ANS 983 var. (ethnic); SNG Ashmolean 1671; Jameson 505 (same dies); Randazzo 15; Rizzo plate I, 11-12.
Purchased September 14, 2016, Classical Numismatic Group, Inc. Auction 103, lot 62.
Ex: Nomos 11, 9 October 2015, lot 25.
Ex: James Howard Collection, Roma Numismatics Auction VIII, 28 September 2014, lot 58.

Here is the photo from Nomos 11:


Here is the photo from Roma VIII:

Post your CNG 103 acquistions!

 

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John,

Very nice coin. That lot did not escape my notice as I have thought about replacing the one I sold. The last one I had went for $3,000, but not as nice as yours and it was 15 years ago. Who says ancient coins dont appreciate in value?! I have my eye on a current CNG lot, but wont let on as it hasnt closed!

BTW, I bet the Roma photo will be closest to the coin in hand.

 

Beautiful coin and great detail in the crab's claws.

 

I remember that coin (and another like it) from Roma VIII. Nice score!!

 

Awesome coin, Ancientnut! The photography is great on all of them but I personally like the Nomos 11 images the best.

 

What an utterly fantastic coin!!! HUGE Congrats!!!!

While I may 'prefer' the NOMOS photo a bit more than the ROMA, I think Ken is right and it will be far more silvery looking in hand as the third example suggests.....and I want one!!!

Since I still have a pending CNG win from auction 103 in dispute, I'll have to wait until after 1:45pm to post.

 

Very lovely coin, I agree with the others and like the Nomos image as a seller, and the CNG image as a buyer. The Roma image is washed out a bit with too much flash.

 

I will be quite interested in seeing which image you consider most appropriate for the coin when you get it. I find the Nomos shot much more pleasing while the other two make the coin look untoned or harsh surfaced. The only fault I see is the missing third A which should be just left of the eagle's leg. More troubling to me is that such a nice coin has sold three times since 2014. Why is it not a keeper? Profit motive? When will it sell again? I hope you love it long term.

What type of flower is that?

 

I imagine the Roma photo will look most natural under sunlight. CNG's silver photos tend to look more black and white than natural. The Nomos photo probably shows the toning more naturally. I bet it ends up being a composite of Roma and Nomos.

I dont see that as being troubling at all. The matter is complex and incorporates answers of all types that I imagine we could offer up. But, just because a coin has a hammer price it does not mean it ever changed hands.

 

Gorgeous coin with awesome detail!

 

Well, after toying with the idea of going after another coin or two before closing, I accepted my sole win as sufficient for today---especially since it went beyond my initial bid and climbed right up to my maximum as time ran out---higher than estimate but a price I'm still happy to pay for a coin I wanted very badly. It's not nearly as spectacular as the OP but I'm thrilled to have won it.

It has a lovely bust of Liberty, with the necklace and earrings clearly shown and the reverse of the Temple of Vesta is wonderful. Apparently, the 'squiggly' lines are not 'pennants' flying in the breeze but griffins and I still have not stumbled upon a clarification of the 'figure' standing on the roof, although 'she' appears to be holding a wreath and a scepter (Concordia?).

I have attached a few photos of the Temple as it appears today and how it may have looked....It has been repaired and rebuilt numerous times over the centuries since it first was constructed.

The moneyer is Q Cassius Longinus a 'Caesarian' and a cousin of the more well-known tyrannicide/assassin.

Denarius of Q Cassius Longinus, Rome mint--55 BC; 19 mm, 3.81 grams':

 

Very very nice Tet. Great Crab! I like the Roma VIII pic as I believe that will be most like in-hand...

 

Purdy purdy Mikey!

 

This is why I fear now we have to consider coin dealers in the same bunch with used car and snake oil salesmen. Every so often I have bought a coin at a show for half what that specimen was listed to have brought a previous sale. Naively, I once assumed that meant someone bought it for too much and sold it for a loss. Later I realized that some dealers report lies and places like acsearch (when it was free back in the old days) reported whatever they were told. Now it seems they all play that game? It would be nice to have a hobby where you felt the people with which you deal are expected to be honest and upright with exceptions considered Black Sheep rather than role models.

 

While I understand the frustration, it has been my understanding that all auction houses, regardless of what they auction, have the option to bid for their own account. This goes for cars, coins, art, wine, cattle, etc. It's just part of the auction business.

 

I dont know if your comments should be taken as jaded or just a bit too harsh. It is true there are rotten eggs out there. They are in every aspect of humanity, not just coin collecting. But it is also true that many people take a loss on coins, dealers and collectors alike. Sometimes it is like playing the lottery or otherwise gambling. One hopes they can get more than they paid but ultimately sell for much less. As a longtime dealer I have done so many times. If I pay CNG say $500 for a coin and it sits in my inventory for 8 years with no interest at any price, I have to decide if I want it for myself or am I better off selling for $50 and putting it into something else I hope will turn a profit?

As a dealer I look at a LOT of coins. And I do a LOT of research. I have seen many coins bought up in auction only to be immediately slabbed and turned onto Ebay, coin shows, etc. In many cases the coins sold for a high price and I snapped them up for bargains later as the re-sale venue was not right for the coin.

But it does come down to trust. Who does one trust in the business? That is for each person to decide but I have been in business a long time and in my experience the bad eggs always drop out eventually. Bad business practices will not keep one in business for long. In most cases some stick around for as much as 10 years but they eventually fail.

My point about hammer prices though is that there are some situations in which the coin never transfers to a new owner. Most often is a reserve. Many auction houses dont allow reserves outright but allow the owner to bid on their own coin. Is that shill bidding? I dont know. Maybe. But nevertheless it is bad business for auction houses to show a lot of unsold coins. One may notice that many European houses commonly sell less than 20% of their auction, the rest offered up later as a buy now scenario. That does them no good, as they obviously started the prices too high.

In the case of John's tetradrachm, who knows why it went through several sales. Maybe it was not paid for, maybe invested in by the buyer, buyer regret, need for cash, the reasons are many fold.

Anyway, didnt want to lecture. Just some perspectives from me.

 

What ever happened to sales showing some lots as unsold? Some sellers used to issue a list of unsold coins available for the start bid. The problem is not allowing an owner to buy back a loser coin to avoid loss but listing that coin as having sold in the priced realized and having that fake sale become part of the price record of that coin. An auction house may not even be aware of buy backs unless they encourage the process by not charging buyer's premium on buy backs above the reserve or allowing hidden reserves above the opening bid. No one is suggesting people be require to sell their coin for a price less than they want but only that they should be required to list up front before the sale whether the coin will be sold if a bid of start or higher is placed or that the seller is not serious about selling the coin at the level the house is willing to list as an estimate. A coin that leaves in the same hand that it arrived is an 'unsold' and should not enter the record to build a case for an even higher estimate in a future attempt.

 

Many houses still offer unsold lots after the fact. As far as I know its primarily the European ones. Honestly I dont see a problem if a coin remains in reality unsold but there is a published hammer price. As a dealer I look at all these auctions to get a better understanding of market values. It tells us what people are willing to bid up to (at least at that moment in time and venue, specific example, etc). This is an important tool for us 'bottom feeder' dealers. If I can get an overall average sales price I will try to undercut it if I can.

 

And, yes, I am harsh when it come to the matter of the 'Hobby of Kings' being turned into a place where honesty is not expected. Recently, we have discussed it here with regard to tooling, false patinas, billing in a different currency than the sale was announced in and selling outright fakes. I'm sorry that is OK with so many of you.

 

a-nut => wow, that OP-winner is fantastic (congrats on that amazing pickup!!)