Cultural Property Laws in Germany and the US

Well, that is my take on it and what I have read so far, but I have not found a link to the law itself, and if I did would have to stumble through it in German most likely. I imagine they assume we are keeping ourselves abreast of the matter and have some knowledge. My communications with another auction house did fully advise bidders of the delays (though not until after the close of the auction).

I agree this will probably slow down business for a while. I am keeping an eye on things to see if it creates bargains, but one auction closed last week and the prices were strong. It could also possibly boost sales from the US to the continent. Who knows?

 

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Here is a link to the CoinsWeekly article Nicholas referred to.

http://www.coinsweekly.com/en/News/...roperty-Protection-Act-into-effect/4?&id=4234

From the interview with Ansgar Heveling, Chairman of the CDU/CSU parliamentary faction of the Committee on Culture and Media Affairs:

"At this point, we have already integrated into the law what the jurisdiction of the Federal Fiscal Court had stipulated: The exclusion of coins as mass-produced goods. At least if they exist in large quantities and if they do not provide relevant and considerable information. Of course this is debatable. But because jurisdiction has introduced these terms, it seems to be a useful categorization to me. That’s why I assume that in the future the majority of coins will not be affected by the law."

So, apparently Kunker is going with '15b' as far as ancient coins are concerned.

 

I won a coin at the Numismatik Naumann 44 auction. That was on 7 August 2016, and I have yet to receive the coin or even confirmation that it's shipped. The last communication from them was on 31 August :

"Dear customer,
we just get the commitment from the Austrian Bureau of Antiquities and Monuments (Bundesdenkmalamt) that the approval of our auction 44 will be done and our coins will be free to ship within the next days. We will do extra hours to make sure you are receiving your coins as soon as possible.
This process is mandatory now - both in Austria and Germany - and we are handling this new situation situation with our greatest effort. Due to the fact that it is done by a government authority, we did not have real influence on the speed of the process.
In future (the delay is depending on lack of stuff during holiday time at the Bundesdenkmalamt), the approval of each auction should take one week of processing time following the auction."

When they used to be Gitbud-Naumann and using the Pecunem bidding platform not so long ago, you'd get an invoice the day after the sale, and coins would be shipped in a matter of days, often reaching international buyers within a week thanks to their unnaturally speedy postal service. Sadly, I guess those days are over now...

 

It sounds like I better not hold my breath waiting for the coin I won in auction 46.

 

They had just made a move from Germany to Austria at the time of that auction, and explained that public holidays had caused delays to the processing of the export permits. I think there's reason to be hopeful that things will go smoother from here on out. Still, I'd agree about not holding your breath.

 

The German law you are referring to is based on European frame legislation. Unlike an EU regulation (which is directly binding law), a directive such as this one needs to be implemented by member state law.

True, three months ago the UK finally voted to get out of the EU. Unfortunately the British government has not done anything so far to start the Article 50 procedure and thus respect the vote. Once the UK has left our community, the country may of course ignore such directives. But who knows when they actually initiate that process ...

And no, as I wrote before, the new law does not affect all "non-modern" coins. It was the initiative of coin dealers and collectors that resulted in the differentiation (archeologically relevant or not) that was later built into it. But dealing with this differentiation will take some time. Quite possibly some lawsuits too.

Christian

 

Humm bought also a coin from auction 46 and paid....(

 

Or er, if....

 

I'm a rookie ancients collector but the cultural property laws have not discouraged me from pursuing my new love of ancients collecting. True, the restrictions on the import of ancient coins has caused me to rethink the way that I purchase my coins but the proof of provenance aspect tends to add another fascinating layer to the history of our coins. Learning who has owned them before us can be almost as fascinating as the coin themselves.

 

I have several recent purchases shipping from Europe to Texas. I think the one from London was the fastest at a week to 10 days. Two from Italy were 14 & 18 days (one arrived today), see seller's pics below. I do not normally buy from Austria and Belgium, but have lots coming. It will be interesting to see how long they take. For me I do not see an alternative. The stuff I want most is not normally offered in the US.

anonymous victoratius, Cr 53/1, 211 BC Rome, 217 - 215 BC

anonymous quartoncia, Cr 38/8, Rome, 217 - 215 BC
Roma / Prow

 

I purchased a Judaean Herod the Great bronze from a dealer on VCOINS. Included with the coin was a signed and sealed Israel Antiquities Authority export document. I was amazed at the size of the coin which is slightly smaller than a U.S. Quarter. Most Judaean coins are considerably smaller.

 

I bought a couple coins from Germany on the August 26th. I got a DHL tracking number on the 31st (does not work for some reason), and it still hasn't arrived.

I won a couple lots from a London Auction, and they arrived in the US the day they were shipped. They passed through customs the next day, and tracking hasn't been updated since. Last update was on the 12th. It was sent via Registered Mail, so I am not worried about it not arriving.

 

I purchase Bible era coins from licensed dealers in Israel. It can take anywhere from 3 to 8 weeks. I realize it takes a couple of weeks on their end getting the export licence but then they often get held up on this end too. You can't predict it.

 

Similar experiences with Israel Dealers. Good folks, but the wait can be frustrating.

Like in business relationships, perhaps I should back-charge time value of money for the wait...

 

Hello,

I have asked Naumann that status of my coin? but no answer, they have a new auction online, nice for them but if they can not ship anything or whatever they do, they should not start a new auction..... anybody same problems?

 

Same company. Receipt of payment from last week, but no shipping status given. When I purchased last year they immediately gave a tracking number.

 

It's probably going to be a while before the kinks are worked out, considering how unspecific the new rules are concerning ancient coins.

 

I paid the same day I got the invoice (over a month ago I think), same as you. Honestly I am not sure I will bid again until I can figure out the time delay for shipping.

 

If they receive 1000's e-mail about where the heck is my coin(s) how can you continue your operation....

 

I dont think they are a really large operation, so I can certainly understand the challenges they are facing. I think the majority of the fault lies with the new government system. There is a learning curve here for all of us. In the past they have had the fastest shipping of all the European auction houses in my experience (three days from their office to my front door).