The Deal With Dealers

coin dealers can turn away a lot of coins based on what they think is selling in the now. you can always ask for a lower price, but do not go so low as to insult them. If they have duplicates of the same coin/grade I always ask for a discount. you have to remember dealers have to buy your coins at lower prices to make money on them + they have overhead expenses. I have bid higher on coins on Ebay because of the particular coins never came up on the market or my demand for was higher. only you can know how much you want to pay more over the actual price of a coin. it's all about price/grade/supply and demand. after years and years of seeing many coins you will get a feel of what prices are for the coins you hunt for.

 

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Remember first and foremost that dealers are just people. There are good and bad, and if you take the time to establish a relationship with a good dealer you can get better results. I would suggest joining local clubs if you're not already a member. Many dealers will also be club members and it's a good way to get to know members of the local numismatic community.

Regarding haggling, it's not required. If you know the market for your coins well and can identify that a dealer is giving you a good deal, then simply take it and say thank you. Sometimes a dealer really is just giving you their best price and they know the price is very fair; in those cases haggling won't serve any purpose but to insult them.

As for selling, it really depends on the material. If you have high quality material that is really for a specialty collector then you won't get a very good price on it selling it to a dealer that doesn't specialize in the material, and you won't get a very good price on it selling it at auction with a low minimum. For specialty material you need to either shop it to specialty dealers or sell it at the price you want outright. Remember, if there's only one interested bidder and he would gladly pay $500 but you start the auction at $1; you're only going to get a dollar. For general material, you can pretty much sell it anywhere, but if it's very common you're probably not going to get a lot if a dealer is interested at all.

It's very common for a dealer to point out flaws in a slabbed coin if there are any. Sometimes slabbed coins have minor problems and are net graded. These tend to sell better online than to a dealer. A dealer may absolutely have some of the same type of slabbed net graded minor problem coins for sale, but don't expect them to point it out for you. You already know, buy the coin and not the slab.

 

Agree with your comments but selling to another collector you know might get you an even better price. This is what I did when I sold my better South African coins to South Africa based collectors. In retrospect, I sold some of the coins for too little but mostly, I believe I received better prices than I would have on eBay or anywhere else here in the US.

 

Well, thank you very much for the advice, guys! I'm not so much concerned about turning a profit as I am about just being smart about building my collection. There's no point in throwing money away. I fully expect that a coin dealer, like all art dealers, has overhead--a physical shop and his own bills to pay. That said, I want to go in making sure that I don't pay auction prices when I'm doing the dealer a favor by saving him from auction fees and the hassle of listing, and make sure that I wasn't underplaying my hand by asking for a mere 10% discount!

 

Lots of good info in this thread I have always liked the idea of a friendly neighborhood coin shop. I've owned a shop for a long time now and sometimes it's like being on Cheers, where everybody knows your name.....but we don't serve booze. I try to foster a warm and friendly atmosphere because people should be comfortable when dealing with coins or money. You can often get a better deal if you're a regular. Negotiation is different these days. Many people think it's like the pawn shop on TV, that you must go back and forth a few times with dramatic pauses. I think it's completely appropriate to haggle a little if you were offered less than you wanted. Dealers are used to haggling but be careful not to grind on them for every last penny on every coin. If you're friendly and show that you have some coin knowledge, most dealers will respond positively. And if you stop in regularly you might get first shot at a recent purchase, or a better price when it's time to sell. This business is all about relationships. That's true on both sides of the counter.

 

This, a lot of times the new stuff and better stuff will be held back from buyers with that kind of reputation

 

@Anteater I ask this question because my answer depends on your answer: Online auctions, auctions that you physically attend or both?

 

Heritage and Stacks and Bowers -- too many counterfeits on eBay.

 

curious ... which coins do you collect ?

 

To be fair, it's not that I bought a counterfeit on eBay, though they are there and eBay never once has removed a counterfeit item that I reported. It's that I was outright ripped off. Spent $400 on a coin that the 900+ positive feedback seller never even put in the mail. The guy ripped off a couple dozen other people besides based on his sudden rash of negative feedback, and eBay never made me whole on the transaction. After weeks of trying to get my money back and getting nothing but hassle from them I just gave up as it wasn't worth my time anymore. Years later I tried coming back to eBay and made a perfectly reasonable bid on a coin which was then shill-bid up to an incredible price. I must have been the highest legit bidder among a swarm of shills because the 3 people above me on the coin were bypassed and I got a second-chance offer which I declined shortly before reporting the seller with over 10K positive feedback for shilling. It will be a cold, cold day in Hell when I go back to scamBay.

Aside: What's up with eBay's second-chance offers? You get the second chance offer at your highest bid price, when you should get it at the price of the next-higher bidder below you. It should work as if the highest bidder never even bid.

I know this wasn't the actual point of your question, but I collect for the artistry, not for the thrill of hunting down some particularly rare date or mint-mark. With a few exceptions, I only do non-bullion, non-commemorative US coins, and only care to have one beautiful example of each type of US coin.

 

that's to bad you had such a bad experience on Ebay. the worst thing happened to me was a coin being sent a month later. I have had second time offers and declined them right away because of shill bidding of which is totally dishonest on the sellers part. the buyer should be able to buy after being the highest bidder first. being offered a second chance just makes me feel ripped off/scammed and then I run away from that seller.

 

The problem I see with eBay is that it isn't really an auction site anymore but a venue for ridiculously overpriced fixed price listings. In the series I collect, I see the same coins listed "forever" at inflated prices that no knowledgeable buyer will ever pay. Presumably in many instances, the seller also overpaid but what I see is that since prices are falling for many of these coins, they are just increasing their future loss.

The selection is also much worse for what I collect, for the most part. Part of this I attribute to the fee structure which makes it a less competitive venue than it used to be.

 

Either you got some bad luck, or you ignored red flags on eBay. The vast majority of my experiences with eBay are positive, and I've even made a couple fantastic dealer contacts through eBay that have netted me many excellent coins, including an extremely scarce pattern.

Sometimes I get disappointed on an eBay auction, but it's rare, and when it happens it's with a very low dollar item. I don't gamble on high dollar stuff if there are any red flags up. I would suggest that you revisit eBay but be sure to be safe.

Although some risk taking is necessary to reap greater rewards, I would avoid expensive raw coins on eBay. Ask yourself why someone would sell a high dollar raw coin on eBay for when they could get so much more if they sent it in for grading. Set a dollar amount cutoff for raw coins that you're okay with losing if the coin turns out to have problems.

Avoid poor photos on auctions. I suppose sometimes someone could legitimately have an exceptional coin and only have the ability to provide a blurry scan, but the vast majority of the time you will end up disappointed with the coin. Ask for clearer photos before bidding.

Research the seller before you bid on an expensive item. Read through their feedback, and often if they are a dealer you will be able to find them off of eBay and read about their business. This can be especially important depending on which country they are based out of. Also avoid sellers that ask you to complete a transaction in a way that violates eBay's rules or negates your buyer protection, unless you have an established relationship with them.

If something seems fishy, it probably is.

 

Yes Ebay allows counterfeits to be sold regularly and they don't seem to care when you report them either!! This is a real problem! It's been a problem for a long time and it's getting worse!! I feel bad that you bought so many counterfeits as I have personal friends who have bought hundreds of dollars of coins that are counterfeits. The counterfeits, at least some of them, like some of the fat man coins are being made of silver and the copies are very good but you will notice tooling marks on all of them. I have reported sellers repeatedly and I even called ebay today and I rec'd the same bs they gave me last time. Here are some that I reported, and some I didn't yet. If you don't see them on the links then ebay told me the truth and they have been removed. If they have been removed, why do I still see them!! It's not with just the 1915 Panama Pacific International Expo half dollar either. Each of these sellers have other half dollar commemorative coins list for sale and ebay does nothing! It's a real shame that certain countries are putting the screws to us. End of rant!!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1915-United-States-Half-Dollar-Panama-Pacific-Exposition-USA-coins-free-shipping/132690573911?hash=item1ee4f97a57:g:RxkAAOSw3qdbPZN6&_sacat=11116&_nkw=1915 panama pacific half dollar&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=p2055119.m570.l1312.R2.TR9.TRC2.A0.H0.X1915.TRS2.TSS0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1915-United-States-Half-Dollar-Panama-Pacific-Exposition-Vintage-Copy-Coins-New/132680621882?hash=item1ee4619f3a:g:6i0AAOSwtrJbM-kL&_sacat=11116&_nkw=1915 panama pacific half dollar&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=p2055119.m570.l1312.R2.TR9.TRC2.A0.H0.X1915.TRS2.TSS0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1915-United-States-Half-Dollar-Panama-Pacific-Exposition-Free-Shipping/323351057376?hash=item4b493993e0:g:v5sAAOSw50JbS401&_sacat=11116&_nkw=1915 panama pacific half dollar&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=p2055119.m570.l1312.R2.TR9.TRC2.A0.H0.X1915.TRS2.TSS0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1915-United-States-Half-Dollar-Panama-Pacific-FREE-SHIPPING/263777218839?hash=item3d6a58f117:g:TqMAAOSw3uhbL8JU&_sacat=11116&_nkw=1915 panama pacific half dollar&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=p2055119.m570.l1312.R2.TR9.TRC2.A0.H0.X1915.TRS2.TSS0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1915-United-States-Half-Dollar-Panama-Pacific-Exposition-Copper-Coins-DECORATION/173395360533?hash=item285f2b3b15:g:fHoAAOSwVMtbPfpU&_sacat=11116&_nkw=1915 panama pacific half dollar&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=p2055119.m570.l1312.R2.TR9.TRC2.A0.H0.X1915.TRS2.TSS0

edited to fix quote tags

 

Excellent thread! Thanks to the OP for raising the questions and thanks to all the vets who answered!

 

I appreciate the fix on this thread Mod, I hope other's see this thread b/c ebay has gotten ridiculous!! The Coinnese counterfeiters on ebay are driving me nuts and I haven't bought a counterfeit in years! When you think about my example, the 1915 Panama Pacific International Expo half dollar, there were only 27, 134 minted and the fakes on ebay are so obviously it's ridiculous!! Oh and my second example below, that's an American company selling what looks like a counterfeit 1926 half dollar. Doesn't anyone have a clue anymore? Just the 1926 Oregon Trail coins have been obliterated It infuriates me to no end!!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/USA-1926-O...2632.R2.TR6.TRC1.A0.H0.X1926oregon+.TRS0.TSS0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ESTATE-FIN...2632.R2.TR6.TRC1.A0.H0.X1926oregon+.TRS0.TSS0


https://www.ebay.com/itm/USA-1926-O...m=263801810099&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982

 

Oh they may care, but when you make your report it joined the line of all the reports ahead of it and that could be hundreds or even thousands of reports that have to be handled before they get to your report. Often the auction will be over before they get to it. that was why it was so much nicer back when they had that link for specifically reporting counterfeits. Those wen to the head of the line and were investigated and handled very quickly. Now, unless they are reported by someone that has an inside track, they get handled slowly along with all the others.