My first case of Bronze Disease

Ditto @TIF

 

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I have not been posting recently, kind of lost my mojo for a while, but I couldn't help putting my 2 cents in here. I totally agree with TIF. I am not a chemist and I have the utmost respect for those who are qualified.

I have never heard the term BD applied to anything other than ancient coins. It may be scientifically incorrect, but if I have it, I know what to try to put it in remission. A coin with BD, as far as I am concerned, is never cured. All ancients should be checked regularly for signs of an outbreak.

I keep separate tools, scalpel, brushes etc for dealing with those coins. If I am wrong, the total cost to my pocket is under 10GBP. I discard flips that have had a "diseased" (don't cringe) coin in them.

In the early days of my collecting, when I didn't know about BD, it did appear to cross over to "innocent" coins whilst in a tub with distilled water, or in a plastic bag waiting to be processed. It may have been a coincidence, maybe not. I don't take any chances nowadays.

I think that the term BD is fine for ancient collectors. Yes, we probably should be aware that it is a "made up term" but it is wonderfully descriptive and does appear to explain to us non-scientific types what is happening to our coins.

I have a couple of bottles of Verdi-care (thank you @BadThad ) but the shipping to the UK is horrendous

 

I condensed your quote to say...I hope the collectors and professionals around the world never see your comment. Chill, let it go. Probably less than 1% of the people interested in ancient coins are working chemists; yet I'll bet even some of them use that term reserved for the "ignorant."

News flash...there is no such thing as a coin with a "cud" either.

 

I feel some of the BD on this forum are the insulting ways folks have to needlessly express themselves. If we all were face to face in our conversations, I would be curious how much courage they would have once they are not behind an anonymous keyboard.

And, I really do not want to hear the condenscending "Man-Up" type comments. There is just no excuse that people have to be rude or condenscending in any conversation.

 

I believe it is good to get everyone's opinions on a subject and that is what makes CT so helpful, also as important that everyone is treated with respect, as Alegandron points out. And I agree with Pishpash that the term bronze disease should stay as it is instantly recognizable by all coin collectors. Even though there probably is a scientific name for this chemical reaction.

 

the term "bronze disease" is used frequently in the book Copper and Bronze in Art

http://www.getty.edu/conservation/publications_resources/books/copper_bronze_in_art.html

 

This is one of the reasons I do not post as often as in the past.

 

Thanks very helpful.

 

You're welcome. Though it does not actually talk much about coins, it is all about copper and bronze, including the types of corrosion and treatments and conservation. It also includes some relevant quotes from ancient times, mainly from Natural History by Pliny the Elder.

"Things made of copper get covered with copper-rust more quickly when they are kept rubbed clean than when they are neglected, unless they are well greased with oil. It is said that the best way of preserving them is to give them a coating of liquid vegetable pitch." Natural History 34:21

 

*self-edit*

 

But do you bake and at what temperature, I need to know this seeing I hold the coin turkey of the year award, I reckon it could do with some oil and baking.

 

Perhaps I twigged some cacti, My comment on BD was that although it may be just limited as terminology among antiquarians and ancient coin collectors, the name give illusions to the affliction ( see I can relate) and thus to the "cure". Oils and waxes are often used as antidotes, and they may , as long as they are pure synthetics that do not decompose to organic acids and other possible causative agents of BD themselves ( I use synthetic clock oil (rather expensive) for such long time needs in an open to air envirnoment). Ancient coin owners may see no further damage to their coins in the next 10 or 40 years from the products they use, and maybe accept any further breakdown as 'normal', but chemically there well could be and it might become easily visible in the next 50-100 years as BD. I wished to push the concept that it is chemical and not a life form or virus, and it is the environment that promotes it, not one coin with BD in the same safe as one without. I do apologize to all that were offended, but even keeping the name, at least evaluate the activity itself. I have read Pliny the elder, and for his time, he was the closest to a scientist as we know them today, and as one, I think today most of his works would be edited by himself as most of the measuring instruments of his science were very inaccurate or low resolution ( thermometers for instance), or not even imagined ( spectroscopes,etc.) Jim

 

Interesting, I have handled several hoards in my time and more than a few had a very greasy feel to them........

 

As promised I said I would re-post my Vespasian Altar after extensive treatment and looking visually better. So after soaking in Sodium Sesquicarbonate mixture for a couple more months to remove the flaky green patina still remaining, I noticed it had a nice light brown patina under that, so I dried it of and gave it a good rub with a soft toothbrush, baked it at 250 deg for half hour then waited to it cooled to room temp (it did darken a bit) then applied some Renaissance wax and this is the result. What do you think?

 

Nice conservation! As I'm sure you will, keep an eye on it periodically, perhaps once a month, to make sure the accelerated corrosion doesn't return

 

Although I'm always a big fan of the ol' wax-hand-job, I never like to discover that my coins have gone through the same pleasure ... but congrats, because your coin looks good!!

 

It's looking pretty good. Nice job!

 

Care to tell us some?

 

Thanks, I was really surprised at how non greasy the Ren wax is, as the coin looks and feels pretty much the same after application as before. It is supposed to act as a shield between any chemicals leaching out of the coin and humidity. You should try it stevex6 instead of what your using, my 65ml cost $15, but not sure what a gallon container would cost............