Toning coins with cardboard

I heard the Rock left Latrobe and some other brand is now brewed there. I know it's now only a "flag stop" on Amtrak's Pennsylvanian instead of a full one. Oh well, Arnie will define it forever. As for best beer in the East, we hereabouts are mostly Yuengling fans.

 

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Those pixes are a sad sight for a monday and thanks for the advise, actually the only thing I overdo is pull too many corks BUT only on special occasions.

 

Thanks for the info
M1

 

I'm not sure you can really discern "in" versus "on" when we're dealing with atoms at the coin's surface. I'm aware many people believe all "dipping" removes metal, and I have read the same repeatedly. My own test results, using non-commercially prepared chemicals, make me dubious of that idea. I've dipped dozens of coins, proof and circulation quality, and never had one rejected by a TPG. And I've never used EZ-est. Jus' sayin'.

Yes, this qualifies as a quibble, but to me, a layer of silver sulfide on the surface of a silver coin is a contaminant and foreign substance.

 

Nothing wrong with quibbling and your point is well taken especially about a subject that is being argued ad- infinitum, as far as dipping PCGS will do it for silver spots as Im sure you know BUT I think that their reasons are only self-serving as with other practices they perform.
Personally I give all my coins a dip in High refined acetone then rinse with distilled water and never had a problem with the TPG gods.
As far as surface contamination I dont mind as long as its only a few microns or so besides its only rust!! just kidding and its been a pleasure discussing, thanks again for the Rock n Roll info as now I know why I cant get it out here on the left coast anymore.
M1.

M1

 

If you're truly using only acetone, and this is "rust" (sic; re: oxidation), there should be zero impact on the oxidation. Acetone removes organic material from the surface of the metal, it doesn't break molecular bonds that were developed in oxidation. Also, since you're supposedly referring to toning, it should be noted that the toning that is acceptable in today's market is typically a result of sulfurication (I don't know the chemical term for the process), not oxidation... so, technically speaking, it's not rust anyway.

 

Thank You my friend for the info however I was just kidding about "Rust". This term is sometimes used by toner collectors of 30 to 40 years as it is meant as a "term of endearment" or colloquialism.
BTW are you from N. Korea I spent 2 yrs on the "line" and have a number of friends living in the South of course.
M1

 

Well I at least am NOT talking about an acetone bath, but my own adaptation of an Eastman Kodak Company formula that was used to clean darkroom towels and textiles that had become stained with silver sulfides. I think it was called SR-1 and its active ingredients were thiourea and citric acid, NOT a more potent acid. It didn't destroy fine cotton dress shirts, so I figured (correctly) it was a gazillion times more gentle on metal than commercial dips. It is something any collector needs to look into. The dip times can run to MINUTES, not seconds.

And by RAISING the pH by putting in baking soda, the dip can actually be reversed to TONE silver coins, and they look EXACTLY like the splotchy brown toning seen often in Heritage and Stacks Bowers catalogs.

 

Right... and this is why other members on the forum don't post such things... y'know, avoiding the encouragement of accelerated toning. (That's my preferred wording of the AT acronym pair.)

 

I am somewhat familiar with the ingredients however the last thing I would do is want to remove the "contaminants".
What I meant was prior to coin submission I give the toned and blast white coins the ace bath, sorry for the confusion.
M1

 

I've come to be utterly convinced that AT is as rampant as acetone bathing so I feel no reluctance. I am 100% certain that people are paying through the nose for massive amounts of AT and the TPGS firms slab the junk. I've found spreading the truth I know the best policy. I'd never pay a dime for splotchy brown toning on a well, ... dime, but if some other moron wants to pay four figures for what I can do in an afternoon, that's his problem in my opinion. And I stumbled on it completely by accident by exhausting a SR-1 bath from dipping too many darkly toned coins in one session. I had too little "smoke" left in the solution and yellow sulfur precipitate visible in the dish. The last coins retoned EXACTLY like 4-figure Heritage coins - no difference.

 

So, that being the case, isn't it pointless to explain a process with enough detail for coin doctors to use, since there's no way to discern between AT using this process and NT from US Treasury vaults? In no way do you benefit the consumers of the coins. You solely benefit those trying to steal their money.

 

I'm willing to be educated on this, but "Luuuucy, you got some 'splanin' to do." Explain to me precisely why I have any obligation to protect the alleged "integrity" (as if...) of a market that I believe never has had any ... integrity. And I speak here of the toner market, as if anyone doubted my meaning.

It strikes me a little like being asked not to defame Charles Manson.

Take it from me, pal. This particular emperor is buck nekkid!

 

It's like this, Kurt:

If you know how to counterfeit money in a way that's undetectable, then you choose to, without coercion, disclose this particular method to counterfeiters, are you helping those who don't know how to tell apart counterfeit bills from real ones? No. You obviously aren't. You have no obligation to protect the market for toned coins, but you must realize that you're not merely avoiding protecting the market, in this case, but rather doing your part to help the counterfeiters (coin doctors) do their job more efficiently.

Or to use your Manson analogy, you'd be posting a list of women who are inclined toward following a man's orders... on a board frequented by known serial killers like Charles Manson.

 

I used to feel that openly discussing toning methods was a no-no, but by keeping things quiet, the ones being helped the most are those profiting from it. If any part of the toning market isn't what the buyers of such material think, it's high time they're educated. If such information has the ability to ruin the market, so be it.

 

Sir I will Bow to your experience and understand your feelings about toning as I AM somewhat of a maverick about many issues including this great hobby, being a old world traveled warhorse has shaped my opinions and that said I will continue my NT ways in my sulphide enriched Wine celler. Good night.
M1

 

BTW, if you intentionally are storing the coins to tone them, that's AT, even if you aren't speeding the process up over weeks, you're still encouraging them to tone... which is exactly what AT is.

 

I agree with this. Look, we have created a world where people now intentionally do what they used to try to avoid - store or treat coins in a way to make their color change. This is Bizarro World. Did we not buy special holders and boxes just a few years ago to PREVENT toning?!? When did toning become a good thing? Unbelievable! It's a stinking fad! I don't do fads.

 

Okay, I get what you're saying, but color being stated as "in" sounds like what's happening to the niobium parts of the Austrian Mint stuff. The color goes all the way through to the other side, pretty much. The multi-colored niobiums raise new issues. The color on a normal toned Morgan isn't really a "real" color at all, being created by an interference effect when tiny thicknesses get tied up with light wavelengths, as in a dichroic filter.

You and I both know that when it comes to NT and AT, the TPGs (Acronym overload warning! Abort! Abort!) are just making this stuff up on the fly. They have a fiscal interest in presenting it as science, when it's all pretty artsy and open to subjectivity. But shhhh, we can't let the investors know about this, so keep it on the down low, okay?