So the back story is that there's a guy in town that is always advertising on Craig's List that he "pays the most money for coins" and is always trying to hustle people. He has no business license, he generally lies to people about the worth of their coins, and then attempts to flip them. He's admitted to me he's been kicked off Ebay twice. I met him when I had some graded coins for sale and he attempted to offer me melt on some MS grade Mercury dimes - and lied saying they weren't worth anything except bulk silver. Needless to say, I politely said "bye" and decided never to deal with him. He kept calling me and trying to pressure me to sell, then asked if I wanted to buy (the greatest coins ever, premium, all worth millions, etc...) He contacted me again last year when I had some Morgans up and I recognized the e-mail - which I ignored. I knew what to expect. So it turns out that a friend of one of my relatives "found" him on CL - and I heard through the family grapevine that he basically ripped her off. She ended up selling a complete Morgan collection from her late husband for $15 a coin to the guy back in June. I don't know if it was 100% complete -but I know there were CC dollars in it - which is enough to know that she got taken - big-time. So I have found him, I can contact him - I haven't. I'm not looking to go vigilante on him (at least not until I have tried all legal means!). He doesn't have a business license, he's probably also taking stolen goods. He's definitely ripping people off and outright lying to them. I don't know that the cops will do anything. I'd doubt the family friend wants to do anything - even though she got ripped off. How do I do the right thing and help shut this guy down? (Legally!) No "peanut gallery" comments. I have enough of those in my head. What is protocol here? What would PNG members do?
The idea that because he doesn't have (to your apparent knowledge) a business license, he must somehow be dealing in stolen goods is a bit much. I also wouldn't make any assumptions regarding the completeness of the collection; all too often "nearly complete" (or the like) collections turn out to be anything but. This certainly isn't meant to defend the guy, but only to urge proof over assumption before involving yourself in something that you've really no part in. Beyond this, the dude certainly seems like a slime ball, but exactly what you can do I don't know. There are a lot of guys out there like this; it's unfortunate.
Contact the police, see what they say. My nephew had a convenience store and we had a sign up saying that we would purchase pre-1965 silver coins at 10x face. Within 2 days the police (a detective?) came in and told him that he could not do that without a license. Possibly "peanut gallery" suggestions: You, too, can post on Craigslist in the same section and let people know that he is a rip-off artist. Another option, depending on the size of the community that you are in, is see if the local news(paper) is interested.
There really isn't much you can do. If she doesn't want to press charges they cops won't be interested in spending any time on it, even if she did the problem would be how do you even begin to prove what had happened. The only real things you could do would be to flag his postings whenever you see them and make competing posts advising people how to to find the value of their collections and giving them a description of the best ways to sell them
I'd say no, but I have covertly told people that they were being ripped off a couple of times at shows if the dealer was truly taking advantage of someone. I realize this is against show etiquette, but it is also against the ethics that I'd prefer a dealer display at my local clubs show.
Not sure if anything can be done but maybe these guys can offer you some guidance... http://www.numismaticcrimes.org/
I would not contact him personally about the ripoff. Yeah, he's a piece of trash -- and lots of pieces of trash pack a pistol and need no excuse to whip it out.
You could do one of these, like someone above mentioned. I think readers really pay attention, when they see something like this. good luck http://sacramento.craigslist.org/search/moa?query=scammer&hasPic=1
He sounds like a real scumbag, but there may not be much you can do. He may not have legally committed fraud. Under-grading is not a crime. Is there any kind of paper trail? If not, it's her word against his. Chances are the Morgans are long gone and may not have been uniquely identifiable in any case. If he doesn't have a storefront or website of his own, he may not need a business license. A lot (most?) long-time collectors have sold coins to other collectors; no license needed. I'd think long and hard about harassing the guy in person or on line. He may deserve it, but: 1. he might be violent if provoked, 2. he might be able to get back at you legally. If you can do it anonymously on line, then maybe go ahead. Cal
Put up an add in craigslist offering to beat any offer he provides someone. This is one of those rare win/win business opportunities where both you and the customer come out ahead. It should be an easy, low risk, money making opportunity if he is really ripping people off. So if you want to get involved, put your money where your mouth is and help both the customers and yourself. My guess is there are a whole host of reasons why you won't take that suggestion, and it's a serious one. But think about all those reasons stopping you from competing in the same space when you start to question his offers. With the exception of the high pressure, verging on harassing, phone calls, there is nothing wrong with putting up ads to buy coins and making low offers. The price he offers takes into account that very few other people are willing to engage in that market, because of the same hesitation you probably have. If it's really too low, and there is enough profit to be made, someone will step in and compete.
Your relative's friend's experience brings up an all too familiar story. Husband dies, and wife gets cheated when selling his coin collection. Either that or the widow cleans them so they will be nice and shiny for coin dealers to look at. Every collector, regardless of age, should prepare a document and keep it with the collection that gives information to survivors on how to handle the collection in case of death of the collector. Mine's 8 pages. One seldom-mentioned advantage of slabs is that they prevent the cleaning fiasco; they also prevent under-grading by potential buyers of an inherited collection. Everyone should have a will too, but that's another post. Cal
My thoughts would be this: Do you want to spend the rest of your life "policing the Internet?" Not meant to be sarcastic in any way, but if your intention is to keep someone from taking advantage of someone else...there are so many variables (educating the ignorant, reporting his posts, posting your own warnings) that you will end up wasting too much of your day...and this guy will basically find other way to keep doing what he's doing. I've done this before (trying to report a scammer on CL.) What ends up happening is that nothing ends up happening - CL won't block someone like that. If you put up your own ads warning people, this guy will read them and then hit Report so many times that your ad will get taken down. Then you put it back up, he sends you death threats, and gets yours taken down again. You might try posting an informative thread about how much people's coins are actually worth (I've done this too) - what happens is the guy reports your ad and gets it taken down, just like the previous one. Even if you say nothing specific about them - they live off other people being ignorant, so they will take your post down. You contact your local police, who many times will reply that "unless a crime can be proven to be in progress, they do not have the manpower or legal justification to do anything." You might try contacting your local news reporter looking for a "protecting innocent consumers" story - maybe they set up a sting and put it on the news. Maybe that will help someone. You might try contacting your local and state authorities...who will either blow you off or pass a rule that does nothing to actually fix the problems you see. So, in the end, what can you do except block/ignore the troll and be fair to people you do business with?
Even if she wanted to press charges, the cops won't. There's no crime here. He made and offer (low ball) and she accepted it. END He's scum. Do you really want to pick a fight with him, since he knows who you are - and may have a proclivity towards violence....
@Brett_in_Sacto As much as I hate scumbags like this, there really isn't much you can do unless the people who have been cheated want to press charges. Even if they did, it is very unlikely that law enforcement could do anything since no one forced the victims to sell. About 15 years ago, a seller on eBay attempted to rip me off by falsely advertising an item. This was back when sellers could (almost) get away with anything. Well, I finally won my complaint with eBay, and I thought it was all done. Instead, this maniac started filling out subscription cards and orders in my name for everything imaginable including about $10K in orders for everything from porn videos to vaginal cream. It took me about one year to get things corrected, and about five years to get out from under the mailing lists. As others have said, you don't know what this POS might be capable of doing. He has no morals or ethics, and my advice would be to keep your distance. Chris
As others have said, there's nothing effective you can really do to stop this guy. The only thing you really can do is spread the word about him to anybody you know who owns coins and might be inclined to fall for his schtick.
There's a scammer who predates at UCLA, soliciting (without permit) for "charitable donations" to the "homeless". I confronted the guy about it, and I received threats of bodily harm. I went to the university police, and they basically told me, "not our problem". They said that as long as he wasn't physically harming people or being a real nuisance, he had every right to be there - even after I mentioned that he did not have a solicitation permit and that he threatened to hurt me. Moral: the cops seem to have better things to do than shut down scammers. In their opinion, those who get had should have known better in the first place.
