Check this CAC grading comparison

I commented on your use of the word "technical." Strict grading is not technical - it is just strict. The original grading system used at the first coin authentication service (ONLY while it was located in DC) to identify coins was so strict to ensure that the grade was precise enough that it would rarely change each time the coin was seen over the decades. When the first authentication service was moved to CO and later began to grade coins, it became the second grading service. The industry gave the name "technical grading' to both grading services to differentiate their strict grading vs the commercial grading being done in the market by dealers.

Now, consider why I'm frustrated: The main reason most collectors, dealers, and even professional graders cannot agree on strike, wear, rub, friction, original surface, etc. IS SIMPLY BECAUSE 99.99% of them have not studied the surfaces of coins with the correct lighting and high enough magnification to be able to EASILY tell the difference!!!!! And if I come across as a know it all is because I HAVE! Furthermore, with the right tools and access to coins it is not difficult to learn. Anyone who is not colorblind can do it.

 

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Are you saying that using high-power magnification is standard when the 3 graders get together to determine a coin's grade ?

BTW, was always curious....what does a TPG do when say 1 of the 3 senior graders is out sick or on vacation and there isn't a backup that is on par with him or her ?

 

We've discussed that original published standard in the past, which I still use to acquire my CACed and TPG graded, mostly Gold coins.

The problem is that I 'm now having to purchase 68-70 top tier TPG coins to suppress the comments of buyers!

In the past I had to overpay to acquire a coin meeting the original standard, but today the gems are often under or correctly priced!

The attached coin, received today, as a CACed MS62 without bag-rub/marks, uniform cartwheel luster, complete rays, lacking wear, is believed to grade MS66 by current standards.

The coin was acquired for a steal price of <$2600!

Without searching, I quickly grabbed a comp.-coin off eBay with believed gross-rub, wear, ray-damage, non-uniform, to show comparative grading:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/355330989034?hash=item52bb609bea:g:2nIAAOSwnDFkTZtA&amdata=enc:AQAIAAAA0G6e31k3dO3b+yV66uCPxzNUwGv4qqiKT/GQcmqSoVgZwBlWG/PDS4AxEWAd3LEYdT8vpueQ16XY0IeIciAyj394qkGMBqIhFMLofz7/EvpiLXqKTefFYd/T7DpBVF66IC2GuQCj0qyLHPnv/es5i8dgOqgLfwQqWVJWBzZ5hq+GTshsjzsvXhKSIKwBN2fefcOryjNUZrjrHLRqIdPC4sCh38tsXJrPDjaUWWHFMo/aUJf6MuqWqi2JrS+eaRCFJzK2Lu2zfm2SmbF117Kc2Sc=|tkp:Bk9SR_StrvSaYw

JMHO

 

GoldFinger1969, asked: "Are you saying that using high-power magnification is standard when the 3 graders get together to determine a coin's grade ?"

Come on, you are smarter than that. I've never seen or heard of any professional TPGS employee looking at a coin to grade it. Every so often, they pull out a scope to authenticate a coin. You learn to authenticate coins with a scope. That's how it was done at the first authentication service. While doing that you are examining a coin closely. In the 70's, we probably got 50 to 100 coins a week sent for authentication. That left lots of time to examine them - all of them (US and foreign) very closely. It became a habit. So, for the last 45 years just about everything goes under my scope - even silver eagles! This would be impossible if I became a professional today and had to grade, authenticate, attribute, and clean 800 coins a day.

The point anyone should take away is that by looking at coins (7-10X) WITH TWO EYES AT THE SAME TIME while using fluorescent light you will become a better numismatist and not much will slip past you unnoticed. After you see things on coins in this way you will know what you are looking at with your eyes alone, 5X magnification, or posted images in forums.

Goldfinger continued: BTW, was always curious....what does a TPG do when say 1 of the 3 senior graders is out sick or on vacation and there isn't a backup that is on par with him or her ?

IMO, most of the long-term graders have learned the company line good enough to be the single person grading a majority of coins although I'm glad I'm not the finalizer. So, I guess things would go on if two graders were sick. The QC guys should catch any wild errors.

 

So then a standard Loupe isn't the best way to learn? That would limit you to a single eye. I'm also curious as to why fluorescent light is best. I wouldn't have thought that as I usually think of fluorescent as sub-par lighting and I hate photographing under fluorescent.

I'm not questioning, I'm trying to understand so I myself can practice the correct way and become better at grading my own coins.

 

That's what you think !!!

This is what I have always said/thought: that you could not do the AUTHENTICATION procedure within the confines of a 15-30 second GRADING procedure. As you yourself stated, you did 10-20 coins a day for authentication whereas you had to do 10-30x as many (if not more) for grading purposes. Looking under a scope -- or even a good loupe -- is going to take 1-2 minutes per coin, I would guess.

That's the problem with trying to gauge surface details: you NEED magnification. The naked eye doesn't cut it.

 

FWIW....I am about 1/3rd through that mega thread over at CAC...it's very informative, and I'm learning alot (I think ! ).....I do recommend it like some here did.....but even there you have veterans with multiple decades of experience, some of the most prestigious numismatists and collectors, folks with TENS of millions (more ?) in coin collections....and they STILL are debating (at least as of April 2023 on the thread) how PCGS and NGC coins (with and without CAC) will be graded and labeled by CACG.

Maybe it will be cleared up as I approach the finish.

 

Experience/Time in is the best way to learn with the right info. Shoot for 10,000 hours as they say. I've been involved with some major dealers who have ONE YEAR OF EXPERIENCE for fifty years. Get it? As for magnification. There are some numismatists who can see more on a coin with their naked eye or a 5X hand lens than a rookie with his 100X toy! What a scope does is let you see more. The florescent light lets you see a coin's surface without glare. It is the best light to see AU/MS for anyone. Beginners should use incandescent light to see hairlines and marks the easiest.

If I said that, it was a mistake. I never did 10-20 coins a day. No company would stay in business! Furthermore, it takes just a few seconds to pop a coin under the scope to look for defects, altered surfaces, and damage. I'm not blasting you, but the general public has absolutely no idea what goes on in a grading room or the time a grader spends on a particular coin because they are not there. It also depends on the coin. Sometimes it takes several minutes to look up the correct KM# for a foreign coin I've never seen but that is something extra ICG does although it's not economical for the company.

In my experience, most coins can be authenticated in the blink of an eye by a knowledgeable collector. Many coins (especially MS) can also be graded in the blink of an eye by a knowledgeable grader and then the grade must be confirmed in a few seconds more. It is easy to hit the adjectival grade in the blink of an eye (Fine, Very Fine, etc.) for a circulated coin but then you must break that down to a number. The time spent on a coin depends on the coin. As an experiment just now, I graded a 1972 DD cent MS-65 Red in fourteen seconds from the time I touched the flip. About five seconds of that was getting the coin ready to grade with my 7X hand lens and putting it back into the flip. Then it takes about three seconds to type the info into the computer. Eight to twelve seconds seems fast but count it out. I would bet that if you took the time to count the number of coins any grader did in a day and the time it took, the average per coin would be higher than I should attempt to guess and my experiment just now.

What I may have been trying to say is I've had the luxury no to work in a sweat mill and I can spend as much time as I wish on each coin so I'll e
leave it like that. Additionally, fakes have become so good that many coins that were once authenticated in about 10 seconds under the scope now are taking many minutes.