How do we know it is fake/real?

Bah eBay!

 

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OK try Amazon

 

LOL, so we are HIDING behind Emoticons now??? Have you been CONDITIONED???

 

You mean something like this?


btw. I would not recommend wearing this in front of the wife.

There is a site dedicated to lava lamps. lavalamps.com don't ask, it just haphazardly appeared on my google page.

 

My wife wants a nice fake. Yours is very nice. What do you think one would cost if I could pry it away from an anciect dealer's "bad" box? So far, I've only been able to find the pot metal casts with chrome-like plating.

 

Now I have a question. This coin is rather crude and softly struck. I imagine that at least some ancient guy thought the coin was suspicious and put some test cuts into it. Also, I've heard that counterfeits are made and then test cut on purpose.

 

Don't buy a fake from a fake seller. Buy a replica from a maker that services the jewelry market and people interested in antiquity in countries that do not allow private ownership of the real thing. Obviously some are better than others and none are as good as the real thing. For example Antiquanova makes owls in silver for 40 euros and 3 euros for pot metal. I consider the style one of the worst of their replicas but that may be because I know the look of Athenian coins better than I do that of coins from Naxos. Their silver replicas are marked with their company symbol but their pot metal ones are not on the theory that they are, after all, pot metal. There are other makers.
http://www.antiquanova.cz/Tetradrachma-stribro-999-Atheny-455-449-pr-Kr-Recko-replika-mince-d58.htm

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2ROOKS-ATTI...IN-ATHENA-OWL-EDUCATIONAL-GIFT-/311542488587?

 

Note there is silver at the bottom of this plated tetradrachm's test cut. It was either plated after it was cut or made from dies/mold that incorporated the cut in the design. When new would it have fooled more people than it would have if there were no cut? I'd love to know. I understand many Great Britain pound coins are counterfeit. How many people just spend them never knowing?


My lesser one has a little silver down there but is more a guess that it was made that way.


The one below was probably pretty deceptive before it was cut. It has thick silver. I believe it was first cut behind the tail revealing a tiny bit of core. That rose the suspicion of the tester who then applied a much more vigorous chop across the body taking away all question. I envision this event involving words in Greek we are not allowed to use in polite company. Would you have suspected this coin before it was cut? It weighs 16.5g which is within reason for a solid coin BUT to make up for the lower weight of the copper, it is a bit too large. If you did this sort of thing for a living, the error would be glaring.

 

I have posted this before, but I dont see it as ugly, just uber cool. The test cut has made the coin articulated, and I can make it move so that Athena appears to be 'talking'!



I should not do that often, as the coin will break apart soon!

 

As to whether or not my Athena/Owl is real or not- I found a coin dealer in Santa Fe that only deals in ancients. He checked it over very carefully, measured it, weighed it, then looked at it through a microscope. When he was done, he looked up at me and offered me $1,000 for it. So in his opinion (he's putting his money where his mouth is) and with 40 years dealing with ancients, it is authentic.

I'm still going to send it to David Sear, but I feel a lot better about it now, keep in mind he had the advantage of seeing the actual coin, not just the pictures I posted to this forum.

 

Congrats, Mont , thats a fair offer , Santa Fe he, Axis Mundi ?

Ken, I like my testcut Owl as much as you do, ugly is just a matter of speaking,

and I find Doug's last fourre simply awsome, such a coin is on my wantlist for some time now.

 

If that is a fair price, I'd SELL IT to him fast as he is the expert, saw your coin in hand, and has voted with his money! Then get another one just a little nicer.

BTW, It still would be nice to see the smooth (?), rounded (?), edge of your piece.

 

Sadly, this thread has made me more nervous and somewhat terrified of buying more ancients. That may be a good thing because it means I'll educate myself more before spending any decent amount of money on them. But until that day comes, and assuming I have the time for that education, I will have extreme qualms ("qualms to the max") about buying an ancient for more than $20 - $50. I can easily avoid the "obvious" fakes, but more tricky ones, the ones even knowledgeable people disagree on, seem widespread enough to warrant a deluge of buyer's anxiety. Eeek!

 

Look, IMHO you may be over reacting. Counterfeit money has been a problem forever possibly even months after the first "coin" or shell was used. Now, I'll be the first to say that collecting was less dangerous fifty years ago. I worked with/ knew a number of the older ancient dealers and counterfeits were not the "big" problem that they are today - in all numismatics. That being said, we never stopped collecting. As long as you resist the great deals and buy only from Major Ancient Coin Dealers/Auctions with good guarantees, you cannot get any safer while you learn.

Heck, today we have the Internet with photos of known counterfeits/genuine coins plus knowledgeable collectors who share information on forums. Do you have any idea what this would have been like fifty years ago to professional authenticators! Try, UNBELIEVEABLE IMPOSSIBILITY!

 

I just got back a coin , certified by NGC Ancients as Ch AU. I really had my doubts about this coin, because it looked so good, I thought it to good to be true. Their label says" Roman Empire Constantinian AD 330-340 AE3/4 (BI Nummus) obv Roma rv She-wolf & twins" In other words it's a Remus and Romulus Coin. Romulus created the new city Roma (Rome) and named it after himself after killing his brother Remus.

As an ANA member I can submit to NGC directly without any membership fees so although I prefer PCGS, I normally send an ancient to them. My instincts told me it was a fake, because it was so well struck and looked like it was made yesterday (note the Ch AU grade), but I sent it anyway, and what do you know, they certified it as authentic. For those that might what to look it up on NGC's website it is 3819947-056.

After sending my Athena/owl to David Sear, I may still send it off to NGC Ancients (if he gives it the thumbs up) just for the protection the NGC slab gives the coin. I have several ancients certified by NGC Ancients and I feel a lot safer letting people look at the coin, and eliminating the physical touching of the coin by having it encapsulated. I deal with the YNs of our club and it's a little (actually a lot) more reassuring to have them look over a coin in a slab than handling the actual coin. I do keep a few inexpensive ancient and medieval coins in flips, so they can actual touch and feel a coin hundreds and/or thousands of years old.

As stated in the NGC terms section, the only guarantee the grade , not the authenticity of the coin, but again, I like the protection the slab gives the coin and the ease of storage of the coin.

 

I'm not being antagonistic, but your post raises many questions. First, does NGC guarantee the coin to be authentic? My understanding is that there are no guarantees. Second, why not have physical contact with the coin? It's not like a modern coin that has never been touched. Besides, for me anyway, I like holding my coins and allowing my imagination to run wild. I know others here prefer the plastic protection as well, but I can't convince myself to take this step. I've had a few coins I purchased in plastic tombs, but I broke them out as soon as I had them in hand.

Allow me to finish by saying I am glad for you and I have my fingers crossed for your Athens Owl (I think it is fine, but I put an awful lot of trust in David Sear).

 

Sounds like this coin , nice design , here's mine:



My advice before slabbing the owl, I think it needs the removal of all kind of nasty stuff,
once entombed it will continue to get worse, especially the green stuff.
you can ask NGC or David Sear to do it for you.

I agree with Bing, (and Doug) I just freed a Pillar 8R dollar from its plastic tomb,
Always gives me a good feeling

 

{As stated in the NGC terms section, the only guarantee the grade , not the authenticity of the coin, but again, I like the protection the slab gives the coin and the ease of storage of the coin.}

Bing:
No offense taken. I stated the above at the end of my post, so I don't understand your question concerning whether or not NGC guarantees authenticity. They do not, they give their best opinion, but they do not guarantee it. I would suggest you go to www.ngc.com/terms and read their explanation of their Ancients grading, it really makes sense.

Different strokes for different folks, that's what makes the world go around. Again, dealing with YNs and non-collectors, I like to have my better ancients protected by the NGC slabs, they can look at them to their hearts content and not harm the coins, keep in mine many ancients are AR or in other words silver and no matter how old they are body oils have an effect on silver. I also mentioned that I have not slabbed the less valuable or rare ancients and those are the ones I let the YNs and others physically handle.