How do we know it is fake/real?

Might want to check the purity too then. I don't have a reference, but I recall reading that Athenian tetradrachms were almost pure silver.

Bing suggested getting this looked at and certificated by David Sear; I think that's a good idea.

 

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Chrsmat71- cute post. I'm fairly new to this forum and when I made my very first post I received a very unfavorable response, but what hurt the most was what I felt was a very sarcastic reply and I got the impression I was not welcome. I replied to that and several members replied that once I became used to the forum I would realize that all kinds of people post to it.

I was told that most people were friendly and welcomed me to the forum, I was also told that some people had a different sense of humor and once I was around for a while I would find who posted serious questions and answers and who enjoyed to elicit a laugh. (I still don't have that done pat) I have to say, for the vast majority of people I have encountered on the Coin Forum, they are sincere people either asking for help or trying to give advice when asked for.

One interesting thing, though, was the number of private messages I got from people who also felt they were made to feel they were not wanted on the forum. I stayed with it, tried to make positive posts and found that I enjoy posting to this forum. I just learned that sometimes inappropriate replies are made (rarely) and to just ignore them.

 

That's the truth!

 

That's one of my gripes with some of the regulars in the coin chat section, they are very rude to newbies. I've seen new members post a coin and ask for advise on whether they have a specific variety or a double strike, etc., only to be called "bidiots", fools, and other disrespectful things, and be driven off the forum.

I don't really really see that type of behavior here with the ancients crowd. I would say the atmosphere here in ancients is amongst the most cordial in all of cointalk. But in the US section and coin chat section, where mostly US collectors hang out, there is definitely an old club mentality....and newbies tend to get a raw deal/nasty attitudes as they are the new kids in the club. I've called a few members in those sections out for their behavior towards new members before, but after receiving responses that were not even worth replying back to, I've just about given up on it and instead spend most of my time here in ancients.

The collectors in the Ancients section are almost without exception outstanding and passionate individuals who will go out of their ways to help others and generously give advise. That's one of the things that first attracted me to ancient coins, the warm reception I got here when I bought my first ancient, vs the cold attitudes I got in the US forum as a new member to cointalk.

 

A very accomplished ancient coin expert, author, who also provides an authentication service which is more reputable than NGC - Numismatic Guarantee Corp.

http://davidsear.com/certification.html

** I said more reputable than CNG - Changed to NGC - Numismatic Guarantee Corp. Sorry CNG!

 

Carthago: Thank you for the link. I think I'll use his service. For what it's worth, I'll post a result on this forum.

 

Not taking sides here, but the problem with the modern coin section is that a lot of newbies just wants to know the value. They don't care about the history of the coin, how the error was made, what caused a die shift, etc. All they want to know is how much they can get for the coin they have. Rinse and repeat, CT probably gets 5 or more daily posts about the value of a coin per day.

Ancients are bit different. You need to be very involved in it, learn about the history. Its also a lot more intriguing since the history spans such a long time period and a large area to cover. By the time someone has invested all that time into identifying the coin they might get attached to it. IMO the ancient collectors are more into collecting and therefore are more willing to help out. We also hope that if more people gets interested, it keeps the hobby going.

At least thats what I think.

 

Sallent:

I agree with what you posted, but it is really a shame that all the sections on Coin Talk aren't civil. I'm sure there are people that would like to ask a question or give their opinion and are afraid of the replies they'll get.

After My very first post I received some very less than welcoming replies. What surprised me the most was the private messages I got that basically said what you said in your post. I just encouraged the people to ignore those that were not helpful and stick with it. There are people who post on the forum who think they are the greatest expert in the world on everything coins, there are people who feel they have to belittle everything a newbie posts on the forum, and there are people who think that they have to make a joke about everything posted on the forum.

Fortunately, the vast majority people on the forum are not any of the above. They are truly interested in coins and have some very good questions or answers to someone else's questions and I hope they keep going. I have a pretty eclectic coin collection, so I wind up on several of the different forums, some, like ancients are a pleasure to be on, others need some work to get them to lighten up and use the forum for its intended purpose-coins.

 

I certainly would take up your friend's offer on having the coin expertised. My gut reaction is that it is fake based on some slurring of details and the 89% silver (most should be higher) but the new weight of 17g is OK. I did not know that David Sear 'guaranteed' his opinions. By 'guaranteed' I mean he would pay you the $400 if he turned out to be wrong not just refund you fees for his services. NGC experts are certainly as 'expert' and I would accept their opinion as most likely correct in 99.9% of the cases. Their business model just recognizes that they would have to insure themselves against an expensive error and that would raise their prices above what the market would bear. The other problem is whose word would both parties accept that the coin was in fact bad. Complete with a certificate from either source, you will find some guy in a shop somewhere that will tell you the opposite. This is rather like a case decided by the Supreme Court does not mean right and truth have been reached but only that 4-5 end of the line experts overruled 4 others and there is not a lot left to do about it.

Given the photos and the data, I would not buy the coin. If the seller is willing to abide by NGC but has never heard of Sear, that might be the best choice. I will be interested in seeing the results.

 

This thread has me torn. It is the sort of topic that I feel that I can learn from and I am keen to add to my knowledge of spotting fakes, which is something I have been developing for the last decade or so. On the other hand it has elements to it where it reinforces my opinion that I should go back to lurking or maybe even just moving on elsewhere.

 

Martin, although I agree with the first part of your post, I don't with the end : because I like so much reading posts from Doug, you, and many others, and have an "ignore button" in my head that I can switch on whenever I don't like the way a thread goes, the good part of it takes advantage upon the bad one by far

Should you leave here, I would be very sad.
Q

 

I feel exactly the same. @maridvnvm , your inputs are invaluable, please seriously reconsider.

I like to collect useful information from as many sources and comments possible. Sometimes some individuals have a different style, but maybe some of their content may be useful. However, their disruptiveness overcomes their "knowledge".

I have only used the "IGNORE" button once on an individual, and it turned out that the person WAS a troll, and was booted from the forum by the monitors. I ignore reading an individual until they become harassing or personally attack, then I hit the "IGNORE" button in their Profile page. The one time I did this, it was Nirvanna! No remarks show up, it as if they did not exist in the thread. I was able to enjoy the forum without all their disruptive drivel. I am seriously considering it again on a disruptive individual.

 

As I said previously, I'm a completely rank, inexperienced and hopelessly amateurish beginner, but I post my thoughts to forums like this one for two main reasons:

• If I never share my thoughts, no one can correct any misconceptions I have in those thoughts and then I'll never progress past a mere beginner's mind
  
• The people - in the ancients forum especially - are generally exceedingly friendly and helpful and, even if I occasionally make a fool of myself or post something embarrassingly incorrect or misguided, it's still worth it to participate and be a living, active part of the discussions and the community; in short, it's highly enjoyable

I lurked here for some 7 years before becoming a more active contributor. I now consider those seven years somewhat misspent. But lurking and anonymity definitely have their benefits, too.

Similar to what others said, I ignore the pointless, rude and puerile cheap shot posts. I take most of those as signs of a deep insecurity and someone's need to "prove something" by bullying others. As was once said concerning the seemingly perennial adolescent playground ethos humans can't seem to escape, "you can leave school, but school never leaves you."

 

BEST IDEA! My Mom enjoys her gold coin charm bracelet I have been adding to over the years (finally finished). A few of the coins are counterfeits but she has no idea. Some man wanted to buy the 1855 $3 charm and I told her if someone wants to "steal" that coin again...sell it, it can be easily replaced!

She won't as it has sentimental value and she does believe it is genuine.

 

Unfortunately, dude, you DID NOT ASK ANYTHING. You joined into this thread perfectly OK and gave an opinion perfectly OK that it matters when the damage occurred to the coin I don't think anyone here will disagree with that.

Dude, here is the problem. The thread was about the scratches or repairs made to the coin's EDGES. Dude, we were NOT writing about the planchet marks one member illustrated. As I said in my post, you cannot (with few exceptions this was not posted as this Dude did not feel it was necessary) tell when the "modern" edge repair or ancient filing was done. Therefore, as I posted, it does NOT matter (except for fraudulent alterations and historical minting methods) when the edge was damaged because the coin is ruined Dude! As for the "historical" aspect, it means nothing if we cannot tell when the edge was filed! Now, if all the edges of a particular coin type and locality have similar file marks, we are learning something here Dude.

When this thread "moved" to postings about filed ancients; if you would have actually ASKED how to tell the difference I would have made some comments. As it happened Dude, since you posted that it matters to you when the EDGE filing occurred, I was waiting for you to educate me/us how to tell the difference. Sadly Dude, now we are posting film clips and flaming the messenger.

 

[QUOTE="TheMont, post: 2486924, member: I'm fairly new to this forum and when I made my very first post I received a very unfavorable response, but what hurt the most was what I felt was a very sarcastic reply and I got the impression I was not welcome. I replied to that and several members replied that once I became used to the forum I would realize that all kinds of people post to it.em.[/QUOTE]

Ditto, Same happened to me and another new member soon after joining on the same thread. He asked a beginner's question that had been answered thousands of times and two long-time members blasted him and he quit the forum there-and-then after whining about bad treatment. I have a thicker skin and welcome all comers. I fire back and let words roll off as there are many personalities involved with opinions here. I stick around because I learn more and more about coins. I've been collecting over fifty years and learned three new thing just yesterday! LOVE IT!

 

Posts like this make me very sad. What have we become? Oh, there are civil ways to post so no weenie's feelings get hurt (@ maridvnvm I am not calling you a name) but MAN UP guys if it applies to you.

Have any of you watched a heated session of the British parliament? Long ago, I listened to several experts discussing the "Black Sea Hoard" over dinner and several drinks in NYC and it was a heated education. Everyone stayed friends, no one left the table (except to pee and possibly pound the wall in the loo), and there were no tears at the end.

I say, ignore me and the other messengers with personalities here and continue to learn!

 

Oh, there's an ignore option.

 

I sure hope it's authentic. I have my reservations as well, but who am I? Everything just seems soft (could be very even wear.) I love the type. Mine:

 

I see none of the problems on your coin that were on the other piece. The reverse is beautiful.