Are you kidding me!?

I'm going to start at the bottom of this thread and work my way up. Remember, anything I write is just IMO and there are a lot of good opinions in this thread that I did not include here.

This quote is pretty good. I will add this. Condition/grade/whatever. Generally, the "market" combines/considers all the factors of condition into formulating the grade assigned. Now, that NGC has separated some of those factors on their label you begin to have a point. Nevertheless, loss of detail (wear) is the main factor when grading circulated coins. Uncirculated coins are "graded" differently and unfortunately even some wear is overlooked.

Now to the coin. IT IS NOT MINT STATE, period. There is loss of luster and hairlines from handling easily seen all over the surface. I have handled TRUE "frosty" MS gold Byzantine coins in the Dumbarton Oaks collection in DC. Perhaps the same slippage in quality within the US market applies to ancient gold these days. As to strike, 4/5 is a joke! Perhaps 3/5 is even too generous. As to surface, 4/5 is another joke. Ditto above.

Many ancient coins did leave the dies the day they were struck with the details of a VF. Nevertheless, At that moment they were perfect (as struck) and original.
Just as in any series (Buffalo Nickels is a good example) once a coin with weak details as struck receives a little wear, to the untrained eye, the coin will look like (and be assigned) a much lower grade.

MS for an ancient is just that. Problem is these coins are old. Finding one with full mint bloom is an extremely rare event with most of them. Nevertheless, a no problem coin with luster and a very slight tone to mask any friction is considered MS by most collectors/dealers.

Yes, Virginia, there are MS ancients, many locked away in museums and great collections. Experienced numismatists (not me) know one when they see one. They are rare as many ancients have been cleaned. In spite of this, when done properly, many ancients can look MS and are priced accordingly.

PS. At the ANA Summer Seminar, the guys were hand striking MS tokens made with hand punched and partially engraved dies!
.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

@Insider stated: "MS for an ancient is just that. Problem is these coins are old. Finding one with full mint bloom is an extremely rare event with most of them. Nevertheless, a no problem coin with luster and a very slight tone to mask any friction is considered MS by most collectors/dealers."


In my opinion, it is NOT a coin UNLESS it has transacted from one human to another. The Function of coinage is the interaction between humans for trade. The very function of it being traded, securing a bond of trust between two individuals, will cause wear, a nick, smudge, or scratch. If it is not used in this function, ie MS and not traded, then it is not a coin. It is a token to me and has no historical value. Sometimes I feel the market gets so caught up in perfection, and sanitize the meaning of the coin. Hence, the ridiculous Modern US coinage trend of the market encapsulating a coin to preserve it from human touch! Such pathetic irony!

 

We all are entitled to an opinion so please don't take this the wrong way. Your quote is one of the most stupid things I have ever read about coins in my entire life! I put it on par with the ANA grading instructor telling her class that the black carbon spots on Morgan dollars are caused when the strike ignites the tiny flakes of sawdust remaining on the planchets.

Nevertheless, you have clarified your opinion very simply; "key word" FOR YOU (yet I see you have sucked-in two other respected members).

I look at things much differently than you do. Most coins (especially ancients) are tiny works of art. To each his own but I prefer a pristine canvas over a dirty, stained, shredded one!

 

Yes, I collect, as an end-consumer, from an Historical perspective. You seem a crass individual having to personally insult people by calling them or their ideas stupid. I have watched many of your over-bearing and holier-than-thou pompous pontifications. That is a sign of insecurity, and self-indulgence in what you think you know. It also appears a means in which you must show everyone your knowledge. I am here to enjoy my Hobby. I cannot give respect to an individual with that type of crass behavior.

 

As I wrote you are entitled to your opinion about coins and the enjoyment of OUR hobby any way you wish. You are also entitled to think anything you wish about me based on my posts - just as I regard yours. The way I look at it, I don't care who the messenger is, what he says, or how he says it as long as what he says is good information that teaches me something.

To say a coin is not a "real" coin until someone touches it in a transaction is, well....

BTW, your opinion of me may be very close to the truth. My wife tells me I have 13 out of 20 traits associated with the typical psychopath so in that vain as a pontificating, pompous, preacher I'll post this again:

"I look at things much differently than you do. Most coins (especially ancients) are tiny works of art. To each his own but I prefer a pristine canvas over a dirty, stained, shredded one!" Therefore, the fewer, ham-handed, coin cleaning, collectors who touched it before it came into my care the better!

 

LOL, ok, peace. We look at collecting through slightly different eyes, and I respect that with you. I believe from your prior posts that you appear to have worked in this hobby for your career. It is not mine. It has always been, and always WILL be a hobby. My vocation is entirely different. I take coins for their face value: when they were created, they were intended for trade. Pretty pictures came later and folks started getting excited about art. I look at them as placemarkers in history, touched and transacted by fellow Humans. Best to you.

 

Ditto! My "bark" is worse than my bite. I haven't had real teeth in fourteen years.