1911 Weak D? Vertical die bar present... Been looking for one forever?!

I've been wrong on so many occasions. Poor eyesight under a loupe (or a poor quality loupe) and/or my being dumb is usually to blame.

But the key diagnostic of the 1911 Weak D (or Strong for that matter) is the vertical die bar within the arrow..?

Someone please tell me I'm not hallucinating. Thanks in advance!

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Can you show us the whole obverse and reverse? There are other diagnostics.

 

That's not the "bar." You can probably find easier to see diagnostics on the Internet.

 

That's not the bar? I thought that's what was on all 1911-D's but not P's.

Here's the full obverse/reverse. I think there is a high wire rim from about 12-5 o'clock on the obverse, and slight scalloping over "states" on the reverse.

Sorry I'm such a noob :/

 

Sorry, I should have been more specific...Your coin has none of the diagnostics of a genuine 1911-D.

@imrich How did I do?

 

Please correct me if wrong, but to clarify, I believe you're saying that the "bar" (polish line) isn't quite, iirc, in the correct location?

Agreed. Even if, to the best of my knowledge anyway, the obverse wire edge and/reverse scalloping are not absolute identifiers, they're not present on the OP's coin, and this is in addition to the above-mentioned polishing line.

 

As an advanced Adult Education teacher, I would have duplicated the process of @Lehigh96. Paul patiently explains the differences, and then shows in side-by-side images, the diagnostics.

I usually employ similar techniques to Paul, rather than your normal techniques of paraphrased "I don't approve". Your sarcastic comments, as after I informed all how a small S could be determined, of stating that anyone could determine the difference before reading my 1st sentence. You spent a significant amount of the thread time rambling, and insulting the intelligence of others.

"Your coin has none of the diagnostics of a genuine 1911-D." quote doesn't establish any relatively advanced/improved level of knowledge, just what I'd expect from my young grand-children.

Your post "I have joined a bunch of forums last year. Been banned from one for trying to educate idiots (the uninformed)and even had a "vacation" from this one." probably adequately explains why Paul patiently tried to provide some constructive guidance, which you appear to ignore. Seemingly subjective statements as would be taught in the Trump school of elegance, could? be esthetically replaced? by concise objective posts.

I apologize if any of my response is found offensive to others.

With your choice of words for others, it's possible you'll sometime have an opportunity to establish relative intelligence during discovery and depositional processes.

JMHO

 

Unfortunately, this thread was turned into a mess when a very simple "Class A" presentation of this variety was not understood.

As a part time teacher myself, I think I over estimated the ability of some to differentiate between two so differently shaped letters in spite of very clear photographs. With that FACT in mind, I suggested an easy drill to describe the shape of the "S" to a blind man. Only one member tried and he was able to see the difference!

 

That answered the OP's question. Note: No colors or no faces.

 

????? You must teach a higher grade than I do as I have no clue what this post means.

Anyway, all's well that ends well. Do you see now that the position of the "S" on the nickel is of no consequence? It's ONLY its shape that matters.

And thanks for chiming in here. I tagged you so you could monitor how nice I was being on this thread.

 

I suspect my adult education classes may be beyond your knowledge skills, but a dictionary should assist.

Others understood my post concerning the large S, and offered similar solutions except using different datums, which may result in less accurate results. Most understood that neither shape nor location were a primary factor, but merely the dimensional difference. This elementary factor appeared to elude your comprehensive skills, resulting in seemingly superfluous lengthy diatribe.

I only responded to your "tag", as I felt you had ignored Pauls patient request (he isn't generally known for pleading? requests) that you try using logic and diplomacy, rather than seemingly unsupported irrational absolute subjective statements.

There are some areas where you may humble me, but I'm certain independent objective testing would determine them minimal. Your use of belittling/demeaning words for others, in a public forum, needs to be curtailed.

JMHO

 

I don't feel that's ever going to happen.

 

Let me quote you: "Most understood that neither shape nor location were a primary factor, but merely the dimensional difference."

Even with all the 75c words and logic (?), this proves that you still don't get it. IT IS THE SHAPE. It's ONLY about the shape! Not location, not dimensions, not overlays, and not fairy tale wishes. All the evidence needed to avoid "a seemingly superfluous lengthy diatribe" was in the excellent presentation at the beginning.

Now, as for your admonition about my direct and to-the-point answer I gave the OP in this thread; why don't you fill in the 1911-D diagnostics for all of us rather than writing how I should have done it?

Fortunately, I have the blessing to work ten to eleven hours a day in one of my favorite hobbies. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to write the diagnostic information on this particular date $2 1/2 that is posted all over the Internet for anyone with the desire to look! Besides, I was positive that a CT member (perhaps you?) would do precisely that! I was wrong.

 

Maybe we are all a bit guilty of not having the time to post exact information in every thread. Because of this we give a quick answer and hope someone else will pick up the slack.

You have picked on me for this same situation Insider and I'm sure I have picked on you about the same.

Maybe we should all get better at playing nice and taking the time to offer more information.

With that said, it's not always easy to do that. Images are probably best but I don't feel good about using an image without asking for permission first. I have got in trouble for this more than once. Links slow down the process but that gives credit to who did all the work.

I don't have the answer but I know we can do better without insulting each other. It's all in the words we pick.

 

As related to utilization of a word in describing relative size, versus shape, I'll defer to a dictionary, an/the arbitrating tool in debates:
"adjective, smaller, smallest.
1. of limited size; of comparatively restricted dimensions; not big; little:
a small box.
2. slender, thin, or narrow:
a small waist.
3. not large as compared with others of the same kind:"

 

@imrich You can "defer (Poor usage? Look it up.) to a dictionary, the arbitrating tool in debates" all you wish and continue to muddy the waters.

Give it up...you are still very ...It's the SHAPE of the mintmark that identifies the variety.

I prefer to consult a dictionary:

SHAPE: "Appearance with regard to the outline of the surface." So I'll point out for others interested in "deferring (?)" with you that we can have two letters of the alphabet that have the same SHAPE yet a different size.

In the case of this variety, anyone can see that the shape of the Large "S" and Small "S" mint marks is COMPLETLY DIFFERENT. One case I can think of where "size" does not matter.

Nothing more to learn here. OP is excellent, therefore, I'm done with this thread . Good luck teacher!

 

OP back here. Can we stop all these silly arguments? I'm a tad disappointed at the relative immaturity of some of these comments.

@imrich - "Adult Teacher"? "Educate"? Your arrogance is appalling. I have attended three (3) Ivy League institutions. No, I do not claim to be good with coins (in fact, the opposite); it's a hobby. But even with my education, at least I don't try to demean or troll others.

I'll make perhaps one exception though; Does anybody else think @imrich teaches at a 2-yr community college?

 

@ldhair Thank you. Fair, and well said.

 

This has to be the most difficult post I have ever seen on any forum to understand. I don't know if I agree with you or not. Maybe it belongs in the other thread?
I hate that this has trashed the OP's thread.

 

Here is what I would do if I was you - google 1911 weak d diagnostics. This is just one such thread on another forum http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=194416. You will find several to read. Then go to heritage and search on 1911 weak D or 1911-d quarter eagles. So from what I have read and looked at yours does not have the diagnostics of a 1911-d quarter eagle. I am thinking of the marks point out over tes and of on the reverse. See if that helps you any. PS - no expert myself on these.

And the moderators could always clean up this thread to remove the posts not related. But they get to make those decisions.