Help Identifying Bronze Greek Coin

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by -monolith-, Oct 18, 2023.

  1. -monolith-

    -monolith- Supporter! Supporter

    I rarely purchase "unidentified" coins but this one intrigued me. I haven't found a coin yet that I couldn't identify, however this one has eluded me. I purchased it at auction from a well known London dealer. Their staff could not identify it either. I spent months researching the coin and even contacted Dane at Wildwinds to help with its identification. Based on our discussion we were able to determine the following:

    1. The coin appears to be an autonomous issue from possibly the 1st-2nd century BC (based on obverse portrait of Zeus).

    2. The coin is unusual in that it is a very small bronze (14mm, 1.82g).

    3. I believe the reason the coin has an untrimmed casting runner, bottom right, with trim marks on the opposite side, was due to the obverse image of Zeus and the inscription on the reverse overlapping onto the runner.

    4. Obverse: Laureate head of Zeus, right (early / primitive style - possibly 2nd-1st century BC). A faint, circular inscription is visible on the upper left, above the head of Zeus "...Π or Ω TOS...". There appears to be a large "Σ" in front of the nose. This could be a date Σ=200. The portrait of Zeus has a very similar style to coins minted in and around Cyprus.

    5. Reverse: Soldier wearing tunic standing facing, head right. Holding helmet or head in right hand and standard with vexillum or spear and large shield in left hand. A faint, circular inscription is visible to the bottom right and overlaying onto the runner (bottom left). The text on the runner appears to be "...OΦC..." / "...OCC..." / "...YΦC..." / or "...YOC..."

    Note: My coin appears to have a lot of similarities (size, weight, material, portraits) to the Cyprus (Cleopatra VII) coins. However there are still some nagging differences:

    1. The "Σ" in front of his nose and apparent inscriptions on the obverse and reverse. The Cyprus coins have no inscriptions, only borders of dots.

    2. The right hand on my coin appears to be holding a mass like a head or helmet. The Cyprus coins are holding ears of corn. I don't see any lines extending above and below the soldiers arm indicating the corn.

    3. All the Cyprus coins have a star above the figures head. Its possible that it got cut off on my coin but I don't see any marks indicating a star above his head.

    Any help identifying this coin would be greatly appreciated.

    lot 1470.jpg
     
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. vintagemintage

    vintagemintage Well-Known Member

    I can be of little assistance with helping to identify this coin, just one comment and not intended to come of as snarky, but...

    If the coin is from the 1st-2nd century BC, I doubt the "Σ" would be a date of 200 as they didn't know then that it was B.C
     
    Kentucky likes this.
  4. vintagemintage

    vintagemintage Well-Known Member

  5. Broucheion

    Broucheion Well-Known Member

    Hi -@monolith-,

    it’s just a Ptolemaic with various malformations.

    References: E Babelon "Collection Waddington," Revue Numismatique, p 205, no 4838-4839, pl viii: 21, 22 (1898); BMC Cyprus, p lxxxi (2); Cox-128: Curium Excavations [21 specimens listed]; B Lichochka, "Un type de Zeus sur les monnaies hellenistiques de Nea Paphos," no 5-6. (In: Cyprus Numismatic Society. The Numismatic Report vol. 15-21, 1984-1990, p 183-194).

    - Broucheion
     
  6. -monolith-

    -monolith- Supporter! Supporter

    That's what I was thinking as well; that it is just a stylistic variant of Cyprus, Cleopatra VII. I still can't figure out the odd "Σ" mint mark in front of his nose. It must be an engravers monogram like this one?
    mark.jpg
    or possibly a date mark like the "I" = 10 (dating it to 16-15 BC) on this one
    lot 287.jpg
    or the "A" = 1 (dating it to 71 BC) on this one
    lot 300.jpg
     
    paschka and Bing like this.
  7. -monolith-

    -monolith- Supporter! Supporter

    For those that are interested here are examples of the Cyprus, Cleopatra VII - BMC Cyprus, plate lxxxi, no. 2; Cox-128. Notice the discrepancies I stated above. None of these have any text, even on the heavily worn samples the star, border of dots and corn are visible.
    Cox_128-1.jpg
    Cox_128_2.jpg
    Cox_128-3.jpg
     
  8. -monolith-

    -monolith- Supporter! Supporter

    Mystery Solved !!!

    I just came across this coin posting on Forum Ancient Coins:
    https://www.forumancientcoins.com/c...p?param=17589q00.jpg&vpar=1184&zpg=16673&fld=

    17589q00.jpg
    Coin listed at the above link, described as: "A very rare variant, probably struck after Actium 30 B.C., where the statue holds a Roman patera instead of the Ptolemaic grain ears. Representations of this statue on Roman coins show the same distinctive pose, with a patera. The statue has been uncovered by archaeologists in Salamis."

    Here is my coin for comparison, with the same "blob" (patera) in the right hand,
    Coin.jpg


    instead of the typical elongated ear of corn
    Cox_128_2.jpg

    Apparently mine is just a rare variant of this common coin.
     
  9. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

    Very interesting! Well done recognizing that it wasn't the usual variant from the pre-Actian period. Especially interesting that the object in hand changes with the end of Antony/Cleopatra's rule and transition to Roman, and that there's a corresponding statue.

    (I wonder if Joe Sermarini's quoted explanation above is based on Matt Kreuzer's work on the Cypriote Cleopatra VII's? Not sure if this type would be mentioned, but they sell his book on the site, and apparently he's one of the largest consignors.)

    And, of course, I love the bizarre shape of that unclipped sprue (?) -- almost like a dolphin or whale.
     
    philologus_1 and GinoLR like this.
  10. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    Wow, that's one of the most unusual flans I've seen!

    Untitled.png

    Cool!
     
    The Meat man and -monolith- like this.
  11. Mims.2cents

    Mims.2cents New Member

    Trying to solve mystery of how to start a post feed on coin talk any help would be appreciated
     
  12. -monolith-

    -monolith- Supporter! Supporter

    Most likely, I used Kreuzer's book "The Coinage System of Cleopatra VII, Marc Antony and Augustus in Cyprus by Matthew Kreuzer (2000-2009)" for my research. As you stated, it appears to be a very rare "Roman" issue as the area transitioned from Greek to Roman control. It's a lighter weight, quarter-unit denomination with a very pronounced untrimmed sprue. My coin also appears to have a sigma "Σ" in front of the portrait of Zeus on the obverse which I still have not been able to clarify why. Here are some excerpts from Kreuzer that support the research for my coin:
    01.jpg
    02.jpg
     
    Bing and Curtis like this.
  13. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    What’s a “post feed”?
     
  14. -monolith-

    -monolith- Supporter! Supporter

    I think they meant how to create a thread.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page