Does a GSA mention on the slab bring a premium?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by goldrealmoney79, Oct 1, 2023.

  1. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    This where the mistake is in your thinking.

    The very first thing that any bank does when they receive a bag of coins is to open that bag and count the coins. It doesn't matter who they got the coins from, they open the bag and count the coins. Have you ever seen or even heard of a bank that did not count the money when someone gave it to them ? They don't take anybody's word - they count the money !

    The Fed itself didn't even exist before 1914 when it was created, so that middle man is out of the picture until after then. But the point still remains - the wire and lead seal wrapped around the top of the bags that was put there by the mint, that was cut, removed, and gone when it got to the first bank.

    And every bag of coins that was returned to the mint, the bank seals were removed from those bags by the mint employees, the bags were opened and the coins were counted, and then the coins were rebagged by the mint and a new mint seal was placed on the bag. So every single bag of coins that the mint had in its possession had a mint seal on it. But it was not the original mint seal - it was a brand new one !

    That's why the GSA had to open the bags and sort the coins because they were aware of this. And they knew that the only way to tell if the coins were unc or circ was to inspect ( which can be read as grade) each individual coin - and sort them accordingly. Which is precisely what they did.
     
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  3. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    Blarneytitis.
     
  4. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    What do you mean by that? The Mint removed its own seal or the bank removed it? And if the latter, what if the bank didn't remove it, it just vaulted the bag, and then that bag made it back to the GSA? Why would the GSA need to count a Mint-sealed bag returned from a bank? Explain better what you're saying up there, it's a little ambiguous.
     
  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I mean the bank removed it of course.

    They don't take anybody's word - not even when it's the US Mint ! Or the Federal Reserve for that matter - if they get a shipment of cash (paper money) from the Fed, they don't just look at the wrappers - they take the wrappers off and count the money ! Every single time, no exceptions.
     
  6. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    But they count them separate, right? They know they're uncirculated, that's why they count them separate? That Mint-seal tells them they're uncirculated and that they get separated from the others and go into those "Uncirculated Silver Dollar" holders while the others go into the "Silver Dollar" holders? There you go. That's how they "graded." Mystery solved.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2023
  7. Jim Dale

    Jim Dale Well-Known Member

    Thankfully, the tellers or whoever is responsible for counting coins and/or currency, has electronic or some other way to count the coins or currency. Now, if you go to your bank to cash a check, the teller takes the currency or coins from their cash drawer and counts it and then counts again when they give it to you. Most tellers I have known can keep a running tally and balance of their drawer. Nowadays, everything is automated. They don't have time to count a roll of pennies.
     
  8. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    No, it absolutely does NOT tell them that. The one and only thing that a mint seal on a bag does is to confirm how many coins are in that bag.

    Every single coin in a bag could be worn to Fine or lower condition and that bag would still have a mint seal on it - because it had the correct number of coins in it.

    When the GSA opened the mint vaults and took the bags of dollars out, every single bag had a mint seal on it - every one of them. But nobody knew, or could tell in any way, just by looking at the bags, whether the coins were circ or unc. The only way to sort the circ from the unc was to look at each individual coin and see if it had wear on it or not.

    And that's where the people sorting the coins screwed up - because they couldn't tell one from the other unless the wear was significant. So some AU coins and XF coins were set aside as Unc, packaged and sold as Unc, when they were not Unc at all.
     
  9. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    Baloney.....again.
     
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  10. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    But there you go, again. I'm talking about the original Mint-seal when the bags went out from the Carson City Mint to the banks and not the Mint-seal the Mint affixed on the returned bags for storage of those bags in their vaults. And those banks didn't open all those bags they got from the Mint, and neither did all those bags all go out to the banks from the Mint, because the demand for those coins wasn't there. I'm talking about those bags with the original Mint-seals, all those coins in fact were uncirculated. And that's how GSA knew. They knew it from those original Mint-seals never having been breached.

    Differentiate the original Mint-seals from the Mint-seals on the returned bags of coins sealed by the banks the Mint had to re-count and re-seal for storage. Those grades of those latter coins in those re-sealed bags the GSA was unsure of, but they knew those coins left and came back. That's what "Silver Dollar" means, they were unsure. And "Uncirculated Silver Dollar" means they were sure. Just from the seals on the bags.

    Have we any extant record of the GSA individually examining and grading these coins for wear and absence of wear? I'm talking about record, not assumptions. One would think there would be something, somewhere, if that's in fact what they did. Nothing, anywhere, in terms of record, that's a preposterous assumption, it still seems to me.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2023
    Mr.Q likes this.
  11. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    GSAcollector. gsaguy. RB.

    Three of the most knowledgeable, on the subject, and have written extensively, inclusive of the history and examination of the pieces, and how the pieces were separated by simple aspect of condition. There are 2 Dealers that I am aware of that were involved in an advisory capacity at the time.

    GDJMSP, there are excellent books and research articles, including the employees present and involved during the process that had written accounts, on the subject.

    I hold no malice toward you at all, and only disagree with generalized statements that are misleading for collectors, but the comments at best are questionable subjective comments, yet are perceived by collectors and persons entering the hobby to be authoritative and infallible because of the position and assumed "authority" status of the person opining.
     
    Mr.Q likes this.
  12. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    I'm immocent, I know nothing!
     
    charley likes this.
  13. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    That's just it, you can't differentiate them - the mint seals on both are exactly the same !
     
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