VARIETY: 1941-S Large "S" Jefferson Nickel FS-501

Wait a minute Mike. You're telling me that there is a difference between a small "S" and the small "S" varieties?? Is that what you're saying?

 

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No, I'm saying that the difference between the large and small "S" mint marks is as wide as night and day and you do not have one. The coins in the Post#'s I gave above are all small "S" coins.

Sorry for the confusion, I should have answered "True" - both small "S" coins

 

As much as I hate saying it. Okay, I guess I ran this one to ground. Thanks!

 

Now, I understand @TJ1952 .

The size/shape of the Large and small "S" mint mark punch (a punch is the tool used to put the "S" into the die) is different.

Plus, the LOCATION of all the small "S" mint marks can vary although they are generally in the same position for each coin series. I cannot say if more than one Large "S" reverse was made. If so, the position of those marks can change also.

 

I completely forgot to get back to this one yesterday, and now I lack the time to do it right before I have to leave for work. Your coin overlays accurately for MM size and location with an attributed example. It's that simple. Tonight after work I'll prepare a graphic more fit for public consumption and post it here.

 

TJ - If Insider is correct and all the cited examples are small MM, then I have completely misunderstood the defining aspects laid out by Paul (OP). It's easy enough for me to accept that "I don't get it." I thought I was watching all the "sign posts." Now, I'm just frustrated.

SuperDave - which version (small or large) does the overlay align?

Jack

 

Go back to the OP. Look at the photo of the small "S" variety. Then look at the photo of the large "S" coin. DO NOT READ THE OP ANY FURTHER! Do not use anything in that really informative post EXCEPT the SHAPE of the two different mint marks.

 

Jack- You and me both.

 

This is not precise science, because the OP's image doesn't lend itself to the sharpening of detail necessary for the quality we see in prepared "clash overlays." With that said, this is what an attributed Heritage Large S - the coin here:

http://coins.ha.com/itm/jefferson-n...-23048.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

....looks like when overlaid on the OP's coin. I used the physical distance from the I to the left of the second O in MONTICELLO as my measure to equalize the size of the images, and colored the Heritage coin red while leaving the OP's coin in greyscale for some contrast. Here's the result:



Kinda exact.

 

Truly excellent work, SuperDave. I personally appreciate the effort you put in on this question. There isn't ANY "wiggle" room at all. The alignment pretty much says it all. Great job! Jack

 

[QUOTE="SuperDave, Kinda exact. [/QUOTE]

Sorry guys, the coin in Post#69 is not a large "S" variety. The coin in the PCGS slab at Heritage is.

Let's play Coin Variety 101 Seminar. I'll play the instructor first and pose this question to the class:

Question: Using the photos in the OP, please explain in words to a blind man what the Large "S" mint mark looks like. In your description, you cannot refer to its position in relation to the building.

Question: Do the same for the small "S" mint mark.

Then, I'll play the student and answer the same two questions. Don't be afraid to try this as it was one method used to get me and a class room of students to "see" detailed characteristics on our coins.

There are several posters on this thread, including the OP. I should hope that anyone who posted here will give it a try. Let's see who replies.

 

Can I play? I'll play with pictures. Because the teacher is a very visual guy.

The Heritage 41-S large mint mark:



My 41 (large) S:



Come on @Insider I know you can do it. Repeat after me.......LARGE MINT MARK!

 

I don't think the OP (an apparent nickel guy) for whatever reason, doesn't want to be involved with his thread anymore.

 

I still say yours is a small S. The only examples of the large S I can find show the bottom of the Large S being about a straight line and sometimes a dimple right before the serif. But if you really want to be sure - send it in. And who knows maybe Paul will rejoin the thread. He was just on last night.

 

@TJ1952

You have shown photo's of a large and a small "S." This tells me that all my posting is in vain. I've explained the only way to get members to see the difference. I fully expected at least you to take a try using words. I think others are too afraid to try.

I'll answer the "student" questions as soon as three people attempt to describe the shape of each "S."

If no one replies, I'll do it for you alone in a PM.

 

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, Paul logged onto CT last night but he hasn't been on this thread since Nov 2015.

 

Okay, I guess I gotta regroup. It's not you. I'm sure it's operator error on my part! I have to digest (or regurgitate), this again.

 

I guess the question is, then, if the two mint marks are the same size, how is the one a "Small" and the other a "Large?"

Is the one below a Small or a Large?

 

The shape of the top and bottom of the large and the small look much different to me. The small has a much tighter radius with the serifs tucked in a bit. The large has more of a square, box look.

 

I don't mean to interject logic here as some don't want to be confused by fact. From my measurements on the images posted, regardless of the mint-mark shape, the "large S" appears to have a proportionally larger height. I believe this can be easily determined/substantiated with a vernier caliper, sewing measuring or metal tape, or a ruler. A calculator may be required for those unfamiliar with the paper or mental division process.

In any of the pictures if you measure height of the S from "crown to trough" (i.e. very top to very bottom), write that figure on paper, and measure the distance from end of the roof V shaped horizontal project to the top of the horizontal slab/porch/deck, and write that figure down. Divide the S height by the latter dimension. You now should have the proportional height of the S to the wall.

I believe a proper measurement/ calculation will determine that the "Large S" is approximately 20% taller than the "Small S".

Thanks LeHigh for your patience and succinct explanation which should normally allow proper discovery of S size.

JMHO