Pompey Magnus lifetime portrait.

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by JayAg47, Sep 12, 2023.

  1. JayAg47

    JayAg47 Well-Known Member

    A budget bronze issue I came across on ebay, the seller described it as Pompey but I thought it must've been missattributed given it's was cheap. At first the hairstyle looked like that of Otho's wig, but the distinctive quiff screamed Pompey!

    I think this coin must have been minted between 64/63 BC to 48 BC, the time between the founding of Pompeiopolis to his assassination. Sextus Pompey couldn't have issued them because he only controlled Sicily, and no city would want to gain the wrath of Caesar/Octavian/Antony by issuing coins of an enemy after this death.

    pompey magnus.jpg
    Obv: Head of Pompey the Great right; A behind.
    Rev: ΠΟΜΠΗΙΟΠΟΛΙΤΩΝ.
    Nike advancing right, holding palm frond and wreath; two monograms to right. Countermark in the center. 4.62g.

    Looks much better in hand!
     
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  3. GinoLR

    GinoLR Well-Known Member

    I don't think the portrait looks like Pompey Magnus. It's not his hairstyle.

    pompée johnson.jpg
     
  4. The Meat man

    The Meat man Supporter! Supporter

    Very nice! I have a similar coin. I need to update the photo though!
     
  5. philologus_1

    philologus_1 Supporter! Supporter

    Below is the coin I use to represent Pompey in my collection. It's the same type (or very similar) as that of the O.P. I acquired it 7 years ago this month via a Triskeles auction on Vauctions.
    upload_2023-9-13_10-8-56.png
    Cilicia, Soloi-Pompeiopolis.
    Pompey the Great. Æ (19 mm, 6.55 g, 10 h).
    Obv.: Pompey, bare head r.; control (if any) off flan; (ΠΟΜΠΗΙΟΠΟΛЄΤΩΝ).
    Rev.: Nike advancing r., holding wreath & palm; in r. field, AΘ (above star?).
    Attrib.: SNG BN 1215; SNG Levante 881.
    Green patina. Good very fine.
    A duplicate from the RBW Collection of Roman Republican Coins.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2023
  6. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    "Pompey Magnus lifetime portrait"
    Roman Provincial Coinage volume II has these Pompeioplois coins minted under Domitian.
    https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/search/...ight_max=&diameter_min=&diameter_max=&format=

    They are not minted in Pompey's lifetime. We often read that Julius Caesar was the first Roman to have portrait coins issued in his lifetime.

    PompeyAtPompeiopolis2232.jpg

    Here is a portrait piece of Pompey, from Pompeiopolis under Domitian. I don't have my notes with me giving the details.
     
  7. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    That's a great coin!
     
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  8. philologus_1

    philologus_1 Supporter! Supporter

    There is a definite resemblance in the obverse portraiture of the Domitian-era types and the mid-to-late 1st century BC types. Somewhat similarly, both types feature a figure standing vertically in the central portion of the reverse. This can confuse attempts to attribute heavily worn or damaged examples of these types.

    However it would seem that a quick differentiation would be the following:
    A standing Athena with shield, holding a small Nike is Flavian-era.
    A standing winged-Nike extending a wreath is 1st century BC.

    (Not to mention the diameter being a helpful attribution determinant (23-24 mm Domitian-era -vs- 19-20 mm 1st century BC).

    The earlier types (mine above and the O.P.) are cited with dates which do not precisely agree, yet do fall in the 1st century BC such as "66-48 BC", "66-27 BC", "time of Pompey the Great", "time of Pompey the Great or later (Circa 66-27 BC)", "66 - 30 v. Chr.", and a quite ambiguous "after 66 BC". See examples here:
    https://www.acsearch.info/search.ht...de=1&fr=1&it=1&es=1&ot=1&currency=usd&order=1
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2023
    Marsyas Mike and JayAg47 like this.
  9. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

    I don't have a strong opinion on the dating of these, but the first Pompey listed in RPC Online is dated Year 96 = AD 30/1 (Tiberius): Volume: I №: 4001.

    I'm not sure if the earlier issues would've been included in RPC? Some of the pseudo-autonomous, Imperatorial era ones are, but some seem not to be.

    I see dealers dating these in various ways, but often c. "66-27 BC" or "66-48 BC," sometimes citing SNG France 1212 or 1213-1217, sometimes SNG Levante 880-1. (I don't have either, but I suppose the SNG France coins are probably on the BnF website.) E.g.: Nomos Obolos 13, 403: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=6096573 or Obolos 7, 212: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=4241277

    Are those coins dated (ΔH and AO and others)? In which case it may be possible to know if they are from the Tiberius / Nero era issues in RPC, or earlier Pompeian.

    Here is the entirety of what Edward Cohen (2011: p. 381) included in his Dated Coins of Antiquity for Soli-Pompeiopolis (my copy of which, by the way, is signed, with a nice personal inscription to Hubert Lanz & dated, though I still need to work out to which era/characters he was using for the date!):

    Cohen DCA Soloi-Pompeiopolis.jpg
     
  10. philologus_1

    philologus_1 Supporter! Supporter

    Thank you, @Curtis

    I also do not have a strong opinion. I only know what I read and can observe. From doing a little more investigating I saw that most examples of the type (such as I posted above) are cited with "AΘ" directly under Nike's extended arm in the reverse's right field. Mine above was originally posted as "ΛΘ" but I just edited the post to show "AΘ" because after looking at many examples online along with looking at my example magnified, "AΘ" seems correct. If that is intended as a date, then would that equate to year 19? And if so, year 19 of what?... Pompeian calendar? ...founding of the mint city? ...or of Augustus or Tiberius? And speaking of Tiberius... and echoing the thoughts re: Tiberius by @Curtis above which led me to find this RPC I 4002 A, which is indeed dated to Tiberius' reign, and also identifies the obverse portrait as Pompey:
    https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/1/4002A

    Comparing the (only) 2 examples that web page includes for 4002A shows that although there are clear similarities between the 2 examples -- there are also some differences. Rather than trying to list them here, see the below images for visual comparison and contrast from the RPC Online web page above.
    upload_2023-9-16_11-45-45.png

    Also note that the likewise very similar RPC I 4002 type...
    https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/1/4002
    ...includes Athena standing and facing left, with shield at her side and tiny Nike in her extended hand, (as the RPC III cited Domitian-era types); while 4002A includes winged-Nike standing and facing right, extending wreath, (as does the types now generally so often cited as 1st century B.C.)

    As with many questions within ancient numismatics, sometimes the deeper you dig the less clear it becomes. I am thankful for those who have devoted extensive, detailed time in such research -- and for those many who still do!!!
     
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  11. The Meat man

    The Meat man Supporter! Supporter

    Finally got around to photographing my example, and creating the composition. It's a nice portrait, though I'm afraid I overpaid for it.

    pompeiopolis_pompey.jpg
     
  12. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Interesting discussion. I found one on eBay a while back and I had a lot of trouble attributing it as most of the reverse on mine is illegible except for the big ΔI in the right field, which narrowed down the possibilities. It is most likely posthumous, but I don't know.

    [​IMG]

    Pompey the Great (era) Æ 18 Soloi-Pompeiopolis, Cilicia (c. 50 B.C.-50 A.D.) Bare head of Pompey the Great right / [ΠOMΠHIOΠOΛITΩ?], Nike advancing right, holding wreath; ΔI [ΛΑ ?] in right field. SNG France 1213-1217; SNG Levante 880-882 var. (5.50 grams / 18 mm) eBay June 2022

    Attribution: Many varieties of this type; most online sources are vague about attribution. Reverse legends missing, except ΔI in right field. Some with ΔI also have ΛΑ below. See: Numismatik Naumann Auct. 42; Lot 576; 03.04.2016; Roma E-Sale 31; Lot 212; Nov. 2016 (asiaminorcoins.com); Artemide Aste 45E; Lot 242; Dec. 15-16, 2018.
     
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