Proof or MS?

Hi everyone, out of interest, would you see this coin as MS or Proof?

 

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Mint State. These coins were made for standard circulation.
1 Cent (English Legend - SOUTH AFRICA) - South Africa – Numista

 

25,000 were struck as proof, Hern#D16; Proof.

 

Thank you.

I just want to get some opinions on this coin, as some SA collectors say this is definitely a proof coin.

But, in my opinion, this coin does not have the mirror reflection on the surface or any other characteristic of a modern proof coin.

 

I would agree with your assessment, I have many proof coins as well as MS coins
and proof coins of the mirror finish with allot of luster which this seems to be lacking
heres one of my proof coins for comparison.

 

My apologies the pics are a little out of focus
but the mirror finish is pretty apparent.

 

It appears to have squared rims on parts of the coin on both sides, which leads you to question if proof, but I agree with others that it is Mint State…Spark

 

What does the holder say?

Shiney (even mirror like) has nothing to do with 'proof', as it's a method of manufacture, not a condition. It looks well struck but I would expect a proof coin to exhibit more detail, even in a circulated state........

 

MS64RD by NGC and confirmed by MAC.

 

Please allow me to make a minor suggestion. When making a comparison of a coin, it is best to use similar ones. In this case another SA coin. Otherwise it is not a comparison. The Proof coin you posted shows some charactists one should expect to find on a Proof struck in the USA yet possibly not in SA.

 

Simply put, though I don’t have a proof SA
I do have many MS coins from there and
this coin looks more like them then anything
else.

 

I like the American Buffalo Gold Coins. I only have two of them. One is the 2016 W and the other, I just bought, the 2023 W. I paid a hefty price on the 2023 W compared to the 2016 W.
Thanks for showing your 2009 W.

 

South Africa has different standards for minting proof coins as do many other countries than the United States does. You really can’t compare US proofs to most other countries.

 

I am not so sure that South Africa has much different standards of minting as Europe and probably the rest of the world, since all equipment has been bought from Germany, even dies, since 1892 and onwards.

Here is a sample of a 1965 Proof 1c from PCGS