I say proof based on the pictures the rims are square and sharp. Not an expert on the series though. This is a beautiful coin.
I'm gonna say PCGS called it a business strike, but it sure looks proofy to me. Again, no expert here........
I'm on my phone and unable to research, but the stars and reverse rim/denticles don't seem up to Proof standards.
It's really hard to say based on pics because you really can't see the the surfaces well enough. And die diagnostics don't work well for identifying Proofs because business strikes were struck with retired Proof dies. But if I had to guess, I'd guess no it is not a Proof.
As someone who is new enough not to know... is there any noticeable difference between the last proof coin struck with proof dies and the first business strike coin struck with retired proof dies?
So if this is a MS coin with PL surfaces, wouldn't they call it PL? The hairlines look like they do on proof coins but this one isn't PL or Proof. Grade is MS62 which is why I thought maybe it was a PF62 and they just forgot to change the MS from a previous coin.
Guess I should have just looked in my Seated quarter book. Says the 1872 dies were used in both business and proof strikes for the first and only time in 1880. It says UNCs come in PL and a Satiny luster finishes.
Obverse doesn't look flashy enough for it to have been struck as a proof. There are also very specific die markers documented to distinguish between proofs and business strikes for 1880. The business strike mintage is low enough that prooflike business strikes will be relatively common. As for why PCGS doesn't call it PL, assuming it would qualify, the only use that designation on Morgan dollars. Why they don't use it wherever appropriate, I don't know.
If you bought this as a proof I think you did alright....I would have thought the MS version would actually be quite a lot more valuable, but after looking, prices seem to be about the same, still think the business strike is a bit more scarce over-all considering demand.
As the other gentleman mentioned, PCGS will not designate PL on this type. However, NGC will if you wish to take that path. In the end, depending on what your plans for the coin are, this is one of the cases where it may actually do better in NGC plastic as opposed to PCGS.
1880 is known for alot of prooflike coins , low mintage year just over 13k, but available in gem grades that come pl.
I haven't bought it, I was in the same mind as someone above. The business strike is much more difficult to get and I didn't want to pay if the coin was indeed a proof. The hairlines on the coin just reminded me of seated proofs I've seen so I thought it was just a proof in a MS holder. I've seen a few Seated coins with PL on the label but thinking back they were in NGC slabs. Still on the fence on this one. It's priced about right with a MS63 currently on eBay but has way more eye appeal.
Well that's kind of the thing, you never know. The issue with die diagnostics is this, sometimes there aren't any, sometimes for a couple of reasons. The first and most obvious - if the same die is used on both Proofs and business strikes, there shouldn't be any. But sometimes both Proof and business strike dies are made from the same hub, as a result both dies will have the same diagnostics because they both got them from that same hub. But there are other differences that can be recognized, as I mentioned above - the surfaces, and sometimes the quality of strike. This is because Proofs are struck on specially prepared planchets whereas business strikes are not. Proofs are also always struck at least twice, whereas business strikes are not. So even if a retired Proof die is used, there will still be differences between the Proofs and business strikes. But they will be differences that can usually only be seen with an in hand examination done by somebody with the requisite experience to do that examination.
Assuming both dies were moved from the medal press to the coining press at the same time, the only differences might be striking quality, maybe the rims, maybe the reeding. The "fabric" of the coin is also something to take into consideration, although that is something that is hard to explain and needs to be observed over time. There might also be contact marks with other coins. The thing is, the reverse die being undated could be used for proof production for several years in a row. I know this was the case for Morgan dollars from late 1878 through 1880, and there is a unique diagnostic for these. Other researchers have documented other diagnostics for proof only die marriages for other series. When buying a 19th century coin that could be either proof or business strike, learn the diagnostics, if there are any. If there aren't any, make sure the coin has a grade guarantee. Without those two, just assume the coin is the cheaper of the two.
